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Questions for purchase of a particular CRD
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21539		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  5280 [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Questions for purchase of a particular CRD
Ok, some of you have said stay far, far away but most seem to love their CRD's. I just can't quite thinking about buying one as this vehicle fits my needs perfectly - good fuel mileage for my long commute, trail capability, goes in the snow, blah, blah. Oh, I like diesels too.

So I have found one I like. It is a 05' Limited with 35k miles. The dealer was decent enough to print out the maintenance and carfax history. One owner purchased locally. Looks like All scheduled maintenance was performed as required. In addition to the scheduled stuff, the EGR valve was replaced three times, fuel lines replaced twice. The torque converter, ball joints and an oil pan repair were recently completed. All of this stuff seems to be the norm for CRD's, except for whatever they did with the oil pan?? Or am I just being naive because I like this car? The price is about $19k with no haggling yet. Any thoughts? Things to check besides the stuff mentioned elsewhere in this forum? Or should I find an 06' and get traction control and hopefully a few improvements? The 06' Limiteds I am finding are about $4-$5k more then this one, albeit they have a few less miles.


Thanks for the help.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I LOVE MY '06 LIMITED!!!!!!

It seems to me that more of the '05's have had issues than the '06 but I don't think there has been an official tally. I would say that from the work done and recorded this is one that has been having more than normal problems but sometimes that might be a user issue rather than the vehicle and maybe all the issues are fixed now. No real way to tell.

Many of us, like me, here have not had any of the work that was listed. I have only had TSB's and recalls done but not the F37 involving the torque converter.

The advantage you did not mention with the '05 is that it should have a 7/70 warranty.
Author:  Pablo [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
The oil pan repair is probably because someone crossthreaded the drain plug or overtorqued it. Everyone that has tried to "repair" this has ended up getting a new oil pan. I believe this is because the pan is aluminum and you can't just retap it like you would a steel one (and expect it to work longterm). I would make sure they replace the pan or you may need to get a new one next oil change...

Also sounds like it has had fuel leak issues. Maybe fixed now, maybe not. If not, a real diesel mechanic should be able to fix it. If that dealer is the one that did all the work on this vehicle-- I would not be taking it back to them as it sounds like they just throw parts at stuff (replace fuel line twice?) and break stuff. Typical story with the CRD-- the dealer breaks more than they fix, but the CRD is probably ok.
Author:  BiodieselJeep.com [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Other 05 advantage: the key trick to read codes.

Oil pan means he hit it off-roading, no doubt. Does that mean he ran it out of oil? That would be BAD... and since they did the work, I would definitely ASK them. For instance, did the owner turn it it cause he ran it without oil and the jeep stopped working on him? If you don't think you got a good answer...ask him to put you in contact with the previous owner. I'm a PITA when I'm on the lot! Or maybe ask for an oil analysis (or pull it yourself and do it).

3-4 egrs is a lot...but there are some nice solutions in the works here...

I'd make them throw in something nice at that price...how about some REAL tires! But $19k seems to be what dealers are asking from what I see on-line.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it hit something off-roading that caused the oil pan damage, then the damage was extensive, as there is a pretty good steel skid plate underneath the engine oil pan.
Author:  5280 [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the input.

If they were not properly fixed, would the fuel leak issues leave me stranded or cause a fire hazard? I want something I can let my wife drive without having to worry about it dying on the side of the road or even worse in the middle of nowhere when we are out "playing"

I will see if the dealer can verify the oil pan was replaced and not just patched up --- what kind of bone head mechanic would strip out threads on an aluminum pan?? I have a 90' Miata with an aluminum pan that I have changed the oil in countless times. I have not screwed it up yet!

Is there any scheduled maintenance that should be performed in the near future? How about a timing belt or do these things use a chain?

I am a little confused on the posts I see about bleeding air from the fuel system. Can anybody clue me in a little bit?
Author:  5280 [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
In looking a little closer at the print out from the dealer, the oil pan was a warranty item. It also shows a "group A" warranty repair, what is that?
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
5280 wrote:
In looking a little closer at the print out from the dealer, the oil pan was a warranty item. It also shows a "group A" warranty repair, what is that?


I would need to review my manual but I believe "A" is 6K schedule for heavy duty use and "B" is for normal driving with 12K service interval. I am sure someone will correct me if I have it backward :lol: :lol: :lol: . It sounds like it was on a dealer service plan during it's life.

With respect to your comment on aluminum pans and people ham handing them....careful you will offend several regular participants here. :roll: :wink: :roll:

Regarding "bleeding air" a number of users here have fuel system air problems and yours likely has had this too or the dealer would not have replaced the fuel lines. While some found the fuel line to be a problem at the fuel tank and fuel line replacement was the cure that has not cured all of the problems. Bleeding the fuel line at the filter is a practice that typically needs to be done if your screwed up and ran the diesel out of fuel or when you have done fuel system maintenance like changing the fuel filter. Several CRD owners here have had to do it fairly routinely though to purge air from the system that effects engine performance.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Let me add one more fact here. The Liberty CRD is an amazingly great vehicle that has been orphaned. One of it's greatest assets though is this forum and I doubt there is a single issue with this vehicle that will not be re-engineered here to make it into one of the best vehicles ever offered. Certainly all of the component parts have merit there has just been a little too little thought into putting them together as a whole.
Author:  5280 [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
With respect to your comment on aluminum pans and people ham handing them....careful you will offend several regular participants here. :roll: :wink: :roll:


No intent to offend anybody :oops: :oops: but this vehicle was serviced at the dealer -- one would hope they could properly change the oil?
Author:  Pablo [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
5280 wrote:
Cowcatcher wrote:
With respect to your comment on aluminum pans and people ham handing them....careful you will offend several regular participants here. :roll: :wink: :roll:


No intent to offend anybody :oops: :oops: but this vehicle was serviced at the dealer -- one would hope they could properly change the oil?


I don't think anyone is really going to be offended. I wish I could find the posts of dealers that have screwed up simple oil changes, but the search feature here is poor. Several on this board have had dealers put gasoline rated oil instead of the required synthetic oil in it. Others on this board have had dealers put 12 quarts of oil in it (capacity is 6.4). The dealership figured it must be a Cummins and have a 12 quart capacity... Still others have put 15w-40 non-synthetic diesel oil in it, which is what goes in Cummins but which is not what DCX says to put in this thing (0-40W or 5-40W synthetic only).


The air in the lines happens because this is a suction system. A small leak can develop in a hose fitting somewhere-- and it does not let fuel out, but lets air in. When enough air is pumped into the line-- the fuel air mix becomes "foamy" like a soda. The engine runs bad (has no power and shudders) or will refuse to start. This will not leave the vehicle f.o.r.d. (found on road dead) as you just open the bleeder valve and purge the air from the line by priming the pump until fuel exits the bleeder valve instead of air. Then close the bleeder valve and restart the motor. In really rare cases, a malfunctioning fuel heater switch has caused the fuel filter assembly to leak slowly, but no fires have been reported.

More than likely the air leak in this CRD is the fuel filter assembly/unit or is caused by the fuel being overheated (bad fuel heater switch), which areates the fuel. The dealer might have replaced two sets of lines for nothing, because they cannot troubleshoot-- just read codes. That would not suprise me.

The fact that this thing has had so many EGR's points to the same lack of competancy. The flow control valve or computer was probably bad and it kept wearing out the EGR as a result. Since the dealer monkeys can only read codes and are not smart enough to diagnose anything--they swap parts at DCX's expense and now this thing has had a turd load of EGR replacements.

Since that part was always back-ordered a year ago-- the thing was always waiting for EGR parts and the previous owner had enough of that and sold/lemoned it.

But as for the vehicle, nothing is wrong with it that cannot be fixed... but not by that dealer. If you want one... buy it and service it elsewhere.
Author:  Goglio704 [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
5280 wrote:
Cowcatcher wrote:
With respect to your comment on aluminum pans and people ham handing them....careful you will offend several regular participants here. :roll: :wink: :roll:


No intent to offend anybody :oops: :oops: but this vehicle was serviced at the dealer -- one would hope they could properly change the oil?


Many of the drain plugs were insanely tight from the factory, the threads are a shallow, oddball thread, and they seem to actually tighten in under use (presumably from heat and cool cycles.) For me, the 7/70 warranty and a real good deal on a leftover 05 made my decision easy. No regrets.
Author:  techTim [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
Let me add one more fact here. The Liberty CRD is an amazingly great vehicle that has been orphaned. One of it's greatest assets though is this forum and I doubt there is a single issue with this vehicle that will not be re-engineered here to make it into one of the best vehicles ever offered. Certainly all of the component parts have merit there has just been a little too little thought into putting them together as a whole.


AMEN cowcatcher,

my drain plug was insane tight too, I nearly broke my allen bit, and then I tried an impact driver and that worked but boogered the bolt pretty badly. will be surprised if it comes off next time without an easy-out. the replacement from the dealer is a regular bolt, looks like 22mm?

no regrets here, I still need to install the CAT filter, a careful bench top overhaul seems to be key to doing this right, along with fixing the leak at the two pucks by using the old filter gasket. there is a mention by dgeist (I think) about using dielectric grease in the fuel heater plug and fixing an overheat situation there. Also, some mention of using a complete filter unit from RACOR that has the heater and 2 micron filter, WIF sensor, prime pump, etc....

again, cowcatcher said it all about this owners group and the re-engineering aspect of the members, some of which are real engineers and some are just mad geniuses in their own right.

best of luck 5280.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
I would need to review my manual but I believe "A" is 6K schedule for heavy duty use and "B" is for normal driving with 12K service interval. I am sure someone will correct me if I have it backward :lol: :lol: :lol: . It sounds like it was on a dealer service plan during it's life.



Your partly right :lol: Normal usage is schedule "B" but the intervals are 6,250 miles and that includes rotating the tires :D
Author:  onthehunt [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Two sets of fuel lines and a replaced oil pan tells me the dealer doesn't have a competent diesel tech working there. Why replace the lines twice if it didn't fix it the first time? Better yet why replace at all if it wasn't the problem? Diagnostics by way of parts changing- a sure sign the tech doesn't have a clue what's wrong. They also replaced the oil pan under warranty. Most likely the pan was stripped, not a great boost of confidence for the dealer again. You can buy it but beware, it still might have issues keeping prime and you don't want them to fix it. This could strand you at anytime without warning.
What's the dealers name anyway? I want to make sure I never end up there.
Author:  5280 [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all of the replies. I took the car home last night for an extended test drive - I like it! I plan on heading back to the dealer after work tomorrow to see what I can do for a deal.

I did find out about the oil pan problem - it was replaced when the vehicle was taken in on trade. Apparently they did their routine service and damaged the drain plug threads. I am not sure how they charge that back to Jeep as a warranty!? But I guess that is somebody else's problem. The other problems it has seem to be the usual CRD stuff, I am hoping all of the bugs have been worked out, but after reading the comments here I am doubting this dealers ability to service the vehicle. If I have any warranty issues I will find a different dealer.

Wish me luck!
Author:  spencevans [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:29 am ]
Post subject: 
In my opinion the '05 is the better year. None of that ESP crap, and it's a little cheaper to lift because of the brakelines. As far as one year having more issues than the other, well I think it's all a wash. I have had a bunch of issues, more than anyone else I know on the board and I stuck it out and now I have gone 6 months without any issue what so ever. I love my '05 CRD
Author:  tulsa [ Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have an '05 and wish it had ESP, but prefer the 70K drive train warranty of the '05, some have had problems with the ESP in the '06.
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