LOST JEEPS :: View topic - ORM and the CEL---- WHY BOTHER WITH A KIT?!

Because if the CEL is on all the time you will never know if there is something other than the ORM causing it. Sometimes its nice to know something is going wrong BEFORE it gets bad enough to be obvious.

If the KJ is not working right won't we all scan the thing anyhow regardless of a silly dash light?

My preference would be removing the EGR Valve and replacing it with a straight pipe and a block off plate and then have the ECU reprogrammed to delete the CEL.

I'd also be interested to see how the European version of this engine is programmed and set up in relation to the EGR valve.

Jeger wrote:

To add to that, the ORM doesn't fully deactivate the EGR or flow valve, just mostly.

dgeist wrote:

Jeger wrote:

To add to that, the ORM doesn't fully deactivate the EGR or flow valve, just mostly.

Will the kit shut the EGR down all together???

When I was testing the ORM I unplugged the MAF after starting the jeep and plugged it back in after shutting it off.
This never triggered a CEL, so why not just use a timer and turn off the MAF after running the truck for 1min?

No matter what you do to disable the EGR by removing it, bypassing it with fresh air, etc, it will throw a CEL. This is because the CPU is looking for a feedback signal from it electrically (AFC & EGR), and it also expects to see the air flow into the engine decrease when the EGR is supposed to be open. Either one will throw a CEL.
The "Sprinkler Timer Modification" or Off Road Circuit fixes that by fooling the CPU except in Neutral or Park. Only the EGR is left off all the time.

UPDATE: I now have well over 10K miles on the circuit in over 110* F heat here in Phoenix, and it's still working GREAT!!!
No problems with anything. I have checked for codes, and all is happy in the CPU.
I have noticed that my fuel mileage has dropped to about 23-26, but I'll bet it's because of the extreme heat here. I'm betting that when it cools off, it will go back up to around 30 like it did when I first had the circuit installed. (It was much cooler then).
So come on guys, hurry up and someone else prove that this circuit works.

(The only problem I still have is the tires keep on squealing when I squeeze down on the pedal. My right foot is still heavy).

Author:	bentrod [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:	ORM and the CEL---- WHY BOTHER WITH A KIT?!
Just asking, since the ORM just turns on the CEL, why don't we just pull the bulb from the instrument cluster instead of a kit to turn off the light??? If the KJ is not working right won't we all scan the thing anyhow regardless of a silly dash light? You guys tell me what you think

Author:	Jeger [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Because if the CEL is on all the time you will never know if there is something other than the ORM causing it. Sometimes its nice to know something is going wrong BEFORE it gets bad enough to be obvious.

Author:	dgeist [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Jeger wrote: Because if the CEL is on all the time you will never know if there is something other than the ORM causing it. Sometimes its nice to know something is going wrong BEFORE it gets bad enough to be obvious. To add to that, the ORM doesn't fully deactivate the EGR or flow valve, just mostly.

Author:	McMoney [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:
I have been thinking that the flow valve still works just the egr does not open....

Author:	widowmaker [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ORM and the CEL---- WHY BOTHER WITH A KIT?!
bentrod wrote: If the KJ is not working right won't we all scan the thing anyhow regardless of a silly dash light? I have to agree on this point. I have never owned a vehicle that had so many different warning lights...other than the check engine light. Those are the lights that I'm most concerned about. I use my ear for the check engine light

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Author:	brew1 [ Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:
My preference would be removing the EGR Valve and replacing it with a straight pipe and a block off plate and then have the ECU reprogrammed to delete the CEL. I'd also be interested to see how the European version of this engine is programmed and set up in relation to the EGR valve.

Author:	bentrod [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:49 am ]
Post subject:
brew1 wrote: My preference would be removing the EGR Valve and replacing it with a straight pipe and a block off plate and then have the ECU reprogrammed to delete the CEL. I'd also be interested to see how the European version of this engine is programmed and set up in relation to the EGR valve. Now that would be cool!

Author:	bentrod [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:50 am ]
Post subject:
dgeist wrote: Jeger wrote: Because if the CEL is on all the time you will never know if there is something other than the ORM causing it. Sometimes its nice to know something is going wrong BEFORE it gets bad enough to be obvious. To add to that, the ORM doesn't fully deactivate the EGR or flow valve, just mostly. Will the kit shut the EGR down all together???

Author:	bentrod [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:57 am ]
Post subject:
PS- I did the ORM, EHM and cleaned my MAP sensor (29K)....I'ts NEVER run this good before. THANK YOU ALL!

Author:	dgeist [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:
bentrod wrote: dgeist wrote: Jeger wrote: Because if the CEL is on all the time you will never know if there is something other than the ORM causing it. Sometimes its nice to know something is going wrong BEFORE it gets bad enough to be obvious. To add to that, the ORM doesn't fully deactivate the EGR or flow valve, just mostly. Will the kit shut the EGR down all together??? It is triggered by the P/N sense pin from the transmission so that if it's in park/neutral the whole thing is bypassed and it's normal operation (which does good things like assisting in engine warm-up, prevending dieseling on shutdown, and keeping both parts limber so they don't sieze). When the shifter is in any other position, the circuit masquerades feedback to the ECU for the flow control valve and EGR within a valid range (hence no light) and cuts power to the EGR and the flow control (which I believe fail closed and open, respectively). The other nice thing is that you can wire in a simple toggle-switch bypass under the dash so that the instant you leave the pavement, you can turn the whole thing on (since it IS for off road use only).

Author:	Cowcatcher [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:
I will post a mild decent here . I think it is great for the stout of heart to implement the ORM kit but it is not for me. I don't consider myself skilled enough to pull it off and have faith that I won't put myself into a drharv situation with a failure in a hacked wiring harness that allows D/C to escape warranty responsibility. If the MAF mysteriously disconnects and I can monitor CEL with a ScanGaugeII that is a more comfortable spot for me and keeps D/C responsible. The ScanGaugeII cost less than the EGR the fuel pump and lots of other parts and pieces.

Author:	kingofl337 [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:
When I was testing the ORM I unplugged the MAF after starting the jeep and plugged it back in after shutting it off. This never triggered a CEL, so why not just use a timer and turn off the MAF after running the truck for 1min?

Author:	curtis [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:
kingofl337 wrote: When I was testing the ORM I unplugged the MAF after starting the jeep and plugged it back in after shutting it off. This never triggered a CEL, so why not just use a timer and turn off the MAF after running the truck for 1min? Hi, If you go back and read the original link (sorry I know it is long) It won't work that way, You will still get a CEL. There have been many different scenario's to prevent the CEL but non have been successful, Except for Turbo Tim's ORM Board.

Author:	cumminspilot [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:21 pm ]
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Has anyone actually been able to remove egr and plumbing and do you have pictures imho cel is good because I do not drive kj very often for me the best solution will be to remove the system completely and see if I can get the ecm to ignore

Author:	techTim [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:47 pm ]
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hey turbo, looks like our kits are in the mail, I am working 4 10's for the rest of the summer, so I will be doing the mod the first free weekend after I get the board soldered. I'll post results asap. thanks again for the initial test mule.

Author:	Turbo Tim [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:07 pm ]
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Yup, I sure did try different values and it got the CPU all upset. It needs to be right around 10 Ohms +/- 2. (That's what showed up on my tests). The power dissipation is not a problem. If you mount that aluminum housed power resistor to the aluminum enclosure, it doesn't even get a little warm. Plenty of dissipation. Don't worry about it. (You have to remember that the CPU does NOT have it turned 100% on. It varies between 0 and 80% duty-cycle on it. Mostly around 40% from what I saw on the O'Scope. I wanted plenty of "Beef" for worst case conditions). Thanks for your great comment on the creative design. I did try many different schemes and ideas and the one that is being built works hands down. Seems most reliable too as there is no varying powers in Op-Amp circuits. Just turning on different comparators (on/off) to switch in different total resistances to subtract out the MAF Voltage, which keeps the CPU very happy trying to figure out where it thinks the EGR should be. Should last a very long time.

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Author:	Turbo Tim [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:20 am ]
Post subject:
No matter what you do to disable the EGR by removing it, bypassing it with fresh air, etc, it will throw a CEL. This is because the CPU is looking for a feedback signal from it electrically (AFC & EGR), and it also expects to see the air flow into the engine decrease when the EGR is supposed to be open. Either one will throw a CEL. The "Sprinkler Timer Modification" or Off Road Circuit fixes that by fooling the CPU except in Neutral or Park. Only the EGR is left off all the time. UPDATE: I now have well over 10K miles on the circuit in over 110* F heat here in Phoenix, and it's still working GREAT!!! No problems with anything. I have checked for codes, and all is happy in the CPU. I have noticed that my fuel mileage has dropped to about 23-26, but I'll bet it's because of the extreme heat here. I'm betting that when it cools off, it will go back up to around 30 like it did when I first had the circuit installed. (It was much cooler then). So come on guys, hurry up and someone else prove that this circuit works. (The only problem I still have is the tires keep on squealing when I squeeze down on the pedal. My right foot is still heavy).

Author:	UFO [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:
Turbo Tim wrote: No matter what you do to disable the EGR by removing it, bypassing it with fresh air, etc, it will throw a CEL. This is because the CPU is looking for a feedback signal from it electrically (AFC & EGR), and it also expects to see the air flow into the engine decrease when the EGR is supposed to be open. Either one will throw a CEL. The "Sprinkler Timer Modification" or Off Road Circuit fixes that by fooling the CPU except in Neutral or Park. Only the EGR is left off all the time. UPDATE: I now have well over 10K miles on the circuit in over 110* F heat here in Phoenix, and it's still working GREAT!!! No problems with anything. I have checked for codes, and all is happy in the CPU. I have noticed that my fuel mileage has dropped to about 23-26, but I'll bet it's because of the extreme heat here. I'm betting that when it cools off, it will go back up to around 30 like it did when I first had the circuit installed. (It was much cooler then). So come on guys, hurry up and someone else prove that this circuit works. (The only problem I still have is the tires keep on squealing when I squeeze down on the pedal. My right foot is still heavy). I work as an electrical engineer, and I've looked at your circuit. Very creative. I am curious about one point, though. I presume you put in the 10 ohm resistor to simulate the load of the EGR valve. Did you test your circuit without that and determine the ECU recognizes the loss of the EGR load, triggering a CEL? I am wondering if you need to dissipate all that power, or whether a 20 ohm or higher resistance would still keep the ECU from throwing the code.