Coolant Filters

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:42 pm

Has anyone taken a good look at their coolant tank? Inside mine, it looks as if there's some type of crud building up on the inside surfaces and in the coolant itself, this after 1300 miles.

I work for Freightliner, and on all the large diesels (Cat, Mercedes, Detroit, Cummins) that we install in the semis, they have a separate filter just for the engine coolant system. They're not all that big, the size of a regular oil filter, and are usually installed in one of the auxilary lines, such as a heater hose or burp line from the radiator.

Wondering if maybe it would be worth a try, installing at least one and running the burp lines from the engine and radiator thru it. the ones we use at Freightliner are made by Fleetguard or Penray.

spoonplugger1 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:18 am

The big rigs use a different coolant, and I don't think any of them have an aluminum cylinder head. The filters on those rigs are using the filters to pre-charge their cooling system additives more than to clean out the system. I rarely have seen anything in a coolant filter that resembles anything like you see in the fuel or oil systems.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:25 am

Actually, the coolant filter that goes on most of them, I'd say at least 80%, is a Fleetguard WF2077. I checked this filter out at the Fleetguard website, no additives, just an ordinary filter, albeit for coolant instead of oil. On occasion, we do install a Penray Need-Release 2088 that does have additives. The standard coolant they add is a 50/50 mix Texaco Extended Service, standard orange color.

for these guys, trying to get a half-million miles out of an engine with a minimum of down time, even just filtering out the corrosion and wear products and scale would prolong the life of the water pump and other components.

PitViper · **Posted:** Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:53 pm

If you have stuff in your coolant after only 1300 miles I suspect something is wrong or was left in there when installed.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:25 am

Might want to check this out. Go to www.penray.com , under the "Power Fleet" section, check out the Technical Bulletins, there's one labeled "Black Coolant".

From what it says, since they started using extended service ethlyene glycol based coolants several years ago, there's been quite a few reports back to the OEM's of the coolant darkening significantly in color, some to the point where it actually looked black instead of orange.

Basically, the common factor in all cases were diesel engines operated at high output or in high ambient temp conditions, using extended service ethylene glycol coolant. Other than that, there wasn't any particular type/make of diesel, brand of truck, or brand of antifreeze that could be pointed out in particular. It seemingly happens at random under the above conditions.

They analyzed the coolant, and found that it usually contained large amounts of aluminum and iron, the pH and other chemistry was way off from what it should be, and it was very corrosive.

Their recommendation was to immediately drain and flush the cooling system, and do one of the following - reduce the concentration of ethylene glycol based antifreeze to the minimum needed for operating in your particular climate, or switch to a 50/50 mix of propylene glycol based antifreeze.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:16 pm

retmil46,

I thought our CRD's are using some kind of high-speed 100k mile coolant? IIRC it says that we should NOT add glycol-based coolant. Idk what it's made out of but I assume from the warning it's not glycol?

Nikko_UK · **Posted:** Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:42 pm

As far as i know the coolant used in the CRD is of a higher spec than the normal glycol based ones (usualy green or blue).

It is of a brownish colour in my CRD and does leave a slight brown staining on the plastic header tank and all other CRD's i have seen have been the same.

The reason this type coolant is used is that the engine block/head in the CRD is not made of aluminum (which needs a glycol based coolant and has to be changed every 2 years), the coolant used in the CRD is more efficient at dispersing heat and only needs to be changed every 5 (i think).

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:08 pm

Actually, the owner's manual says not to use propylene glycol based antifreeze. The Mopar HOAT antifreeze is an ethlyene glycol based antifreeze. And it's not specific to our CRD's, DC has used it as factory fill in all new vehicles in the US since '01, Ford since '02/'03.

It's orange in DC vehicles, yellow in Ford vehicles, and it is NOT compatible with GM Dexcool (the other orange antifreeze). You have to get it at the dealer as Mopar HOAT, or commercially as Zerex G-05. Prestone is marketing a 50/50 mix extended life antifreeze that it says meets the requirements of GM Dexcool and is compatible with HOAT and G-05, but I'd ask the service rep first about this one.

I found one reference that says HOAT does cause staining of translucent plastic, but what I'm concerned about is the buildup of what appears to be black crud or sand in the bottom of the coolant tank. The interior of the tank is divided up by baffles, and in one compartment this stuff has built up almost an inch deep!!!

Reason I'm really worried is that 3 weeks ago the low coolant light came on, and not knowing what I do now, I topped it off with somewhere between a pint to a quart of the supposedly compatible Prestone mix. Now I'm seeing this black crud accumulating in the coolant tank.

ASAP, I'm taking it to the dealer to have the system flushed and refilled. I'm also going to ask them to analyze the system coolant and a sample of the Prestone stuff. At least if it's not compatible and is doing bad things to the engine, they can warn others and possibly get Prestone to pull their advertising saying that it is.

marauderer · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:25 pm

retmil46 wrote:

Actually, the owner's manual says not to use propylene glycol based antifreeze. The Mopar HOAT antifreeze is an ethlyene glycol based antifreeze. And it's not specific to our CRD's, DC has used it as factory fill in all new vehicles in the US since '01, Ford since '02/'03.

It's orange in DC vehicles, yellow in Ford vehicles, and it is NOT compatible with GM Dexcool (the other orange antifreeze). You have to get it at the dealer as Mopar HOAT, or commercially as Zerex G-05. Prestone is marketing a 50/50 mix extended life antifreeze that it says meets the requirements of GM Dexcool and is compatible with HOAT and G-05, but I'd ask the service rep first about this one.

I found one reference that says HOAT does cause staining of translucent plastic, but what I'm concerned about is the buildup of what appears to be black crud or sand in the bottom of the coolant tank. The interior of the tank is divided up by baffles, and in one compartment this stuff has built up almost an inch deep!!!

Reason I'm really worried is that 3 weeks ago the low coolant light came on, and not knowing what I do now, I topped it off with somewhere between a pint to a quart of the supposedly compatible Prestone mix. Now I'm seeing this black crud accumulating in the coolant tank.

ASAP, I'm taking it to the dealer to have the system flushed and refilled. I'm also going to ask them to analyze the system coolant and a sample of the Prestone stuff. At least if it's not compatible and is doing bad things to the engine, they can warn others and possibly get Prestone to pull their advertising saying that it is.

Hey RM, what was the outcome with the coolant system black crud in the reservoir.

Thanks for the update you made on the acceptable coolants.

I have had other vehicles that I istalled a coolant filter on. Sometimes they don't get the sand casting cleaned completely and they will have a glop break loose after a while and it can really mess things up.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:57 pm

A couple of months ago I had to clean out the coolant recovery tank of my '04 Impala. Had about 1 inch of casting sand in the lowest area ot the tank and was blocking the flow of the hose along with a funky grease blob inside the radiator cap. Once removed it hasn't reappeared. My brother has an '01 and '03 Impala, had to do the same thing.

As far as the coolant filters, I ran them on all my coaches and swear by them. If you want one, the head is a standard off the shelf item. Bought Nalcool spin-on filters from a local truck supply store and changed them annually (@75,000 miles). Corrosive scale is a big problem in coaches. They have some very large radiators, an aluminum heater core about twice the size of the radiator in the CRD, and are a royal PITA to change (don't even want to think about buying replacements $$$). I ran 50/50 mix of the old green stuff with the filter, never had a problem.

Looks like it might be a job fitting one into the spaggetti mess of heater hoses on the CRD.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:36 pm

I can get a filter head and Fleetguard WF2077 filter at work for $4 each, sometimes working for DC does have it's advantages.

Easiest place to put one in, IMHO, would be in the 3/8" vent line coming off the top of the engine block. This line definitely has some high flow/pressure behind it, and it would be a lot easier rerouting 3/8" hose than some of the larger stuff. Trying to put one in the heater hoses or the return line from the surge tank looks like it could turn into a real nightmare.

First trip to the dealer last Nov, they tried to tell me it wasn't a problem, that what I was seeing was just staining in the tank. After New Year's, I said to heck with it, drained the radiator down and pulled the tank off myself. Took me over 10 minutes of flushing and shaking to get all the black sand out of the coolant tank, almost a double handful. And got almost a double handful of white sand out of the radiator drain.

Next week I went back to the dealership, with two Mason jars full of the antifreeze and sand I'd drained out of the beast. Service manager took one look at the jars, turned around and told the diesel tech "this man needs his cooling system backflushed NOW!"

Haven't had any problems or evidence of sand/crud since. I'm still planning on adding a coolant filter, being concerned about the two plate coolers this beast has for the EGR and engine oil.

marauderer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:43 am

I will definitely have to keep an eye on the coolant recovery tank. Hopefully I will be lucky and not have the problem. RIGHT!! Mr. Murphy loves me but, I have found that if I adhere to the 5 "P's" I do pretty well foiling his agenda.

Coolant Filters

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