E-diesel

kjfishman · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:35 pm

I went to fill up today and stopped at a Murphy station. The diesel pump was marked diesel with ethanol. It was 10 cents a gallon cheaper than regular diesel 3.19 vs 3.29.

Anyone tried a tank of this stuff? I found this link http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34817.pdf

MOSFET · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 pm **Posts:** 295

I never knew you could mix ethanol and diesel. It seems similar to gasoline/ethanol blends in that there is a reduced energy content resulting in lower net mpg.

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:06 pm

I skimmed thru the link you sent. I think I would run
away. As violatioal as it is in its form, I would not
like to run it thru my tractor.
Steve

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Are you sure some slacker attendant didn't just slap an E10 sticker on all the pumps, diesel and gasoline alike?

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

Wow, I had no idea this could be done, and yeah, it sounds terrifying to me...

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:32 pm

Imagine compressing gasoline to the compression
of our tractors?

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:13 pm

Ethanol will reduce the cetane and the mileage. I don't believe there are any good reasons to add it to diesel fuel.

dgeist · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:26 pm

The safety risk FMEA of the preparation, transportation, fleet vehicle fueling station storage, and use of E-diesel blends containing up to 15% ethanol in heavy-duty vehicle fleets concluded that, without fuel system infrastructure, fueling station, and vehicle modifications, E-diesel use poses significantly greater risk than diesel fuel or even gasoline use in comparable applications. All safety risks identified and ranked were risks of fire or explosion. These increased risks are due to E-diesel having the same flammability characteristics as ethanol. The most significant safety risks are associated with the possibility of explosion in storage and vehicle fuel tanks, and the potential for spilled fuel fires resulting from traffic accidents involving fuel transportation tankers or fleet vehicles. The safety risks can be mitigated by adopting many of the infrastructure and vehicle modifications employed in the methanol fueled heavy-duty vehicle demonstration programs performed in the 1980s and early 1990s, however. Recommended actions to
reduce safety risks include:
• Equipping all fuel storage tank vents and the vehicle tank vent and fill openings with flame arresters designed for use with ethanol
• Ensuring that all fuel transfer processes including vehicle fueling incorporate effective vapor recovery systems
• Establishing an electrical ground connection between the vehicle and the fueling station fuel dispenser
• Insuring that vehicle fuel tank level detectors are of an intrinsically safe design

By adopting these modifications, the relative risk of E-diesel use for most failure modes evaluated in the context of centrally-fueled fleet vehicle use becomes comparable to that for gasoline and diesel fuel use. This is the only E-diesel use scenario currently recommended. The most significant remaining risks are associated with spilled fuel fires resulting from traffic accidents. For these failure modes, the risk ranking exceeds
that for diesel fuel use, but is comparable to that for gasoline fuel use. Additional actions could be taken to further reduce these fuel fire risks, such as automatic fire suppression systems. However, such systems are an expense likely not warranted. The performance FMEA for E-diesel use concluded that the loss of engine maximum power was the most significant adverse performance effect. This was followed by possible fuel pump cavitation causing vapor lock or fuel vaporization in injectors, and potential fuel filter clogging problems. Again, modifications can be made to address these possible adverse effects. These included:
• Increasing the capacity of the fuel injection pump(s) on a case-by-case basis
• Installing an electric fuel pump at the vehicle fuel tank and adding a restrictor fitting to the fuel return line
• Ensuring that all fuel handing system and vehicle engine fuel system components are of E-diesel compatible materials

Taking these actions returns system performance to a level comparable to that for diesel fuel use. However, some of these actions may have unacceptable or unwarranted expense.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:36 pm

kjfishman wrote:

I went to fill up today and stopped at a Murphy station. The diesel pump was marked diesel with ethanol. It was 10 cents a gallon cheaper than regular diesel 3.19 vs 3.29.

Anyone tried a tank of this stuff? I found this link http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34817.pdf

Wow, that study states the problems with it in no uncertain terms. Increased flammability, a tendency to separate, reduced power, and reduced lubricity. The benefits are only "increased use of renwables" and reduced CO pollution. Biodiesel is a much more viable "renewable" than ethanol and actually does reduce petroleum dependance. And diesel typically have no significant CO pollution as they run excess oxygen nearly all the time. Damned if I know why anyone wants to use it, except Monsanto, of course.

kjfishman · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:17 pm

Threeweight wrote:

Are you sure some slacker attendant didn't just slap an E10 sticker on all the pumps, diesel and gasoline alike?

I called the company and it seems your right the help doesn't know the difference between gas and diesel and they put Ethanol enhanced stickers on the diesel pump. I hope they never get a job delivering fuel! The interesting thing is that somebody was experimenting with that combination.

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:30 pm

Think we all done figured out that by now. Idiot just
pastered the stickers on all the pumps.

Steve

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:11 pm

crd liberty wrote:

Think we all done figured out that by now. Idiot just
pastered the stickers on all the pumps.

Steve

Yeah, it's not legal for sale at any pump.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:20 pm

ADM did a test a few years ago: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/adm_cs.pdf

I think the trucks had old 2cy Detroit Diesels jacked up to 22:1 and needed glow plugs on until the engine was fully warmed up.

I would not try this BIO-Fuel.

Steve :wink:

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:58 am

I'm glad that its not really being sold. I notice increased clatter when I have added HEET to my fuel on trips to the great white north. I cant imagine that ethanol would perform any better than methanol. One plus would be that you would never have to drain water from the fuel filter or worry about fuel line freezing.

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:33 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

I'm glad that its not really being sold. I notice increased clatter when I have added HEET to my fuel on trips to the great white north. I cant imagine that ethanol would perform any better than methanol. One plus would be that you would never have to drain water from the fuel filter or worry about fuel line freezing.

I don't think the methanol HEET is recommended for diesels. I hope you used the red bottle, the isopropanol version called IsoHeet.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:49 pm

The red bottle is methanol and recommended for diesel. The yellow bottle contains isopropyl and warns that it should not be used in diesel engines.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:12 pm

Anything that raises Octane like methanol, will lower the Cetaine and makes our diesels run bad. For example; if you get diesel contaminated with gasoline, the engine will knock louder and feel unresponsive when you press the accelerator. Iso-Heat is better than Heat, but good quality season blended fuel is best.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:25 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

The red bottle is methanol and recommended for diesel. The yellow bottle contains isopropyl and warns that it should not be used in diesel engines.

My mistake :oops:

Iso heet is in the red bottle. Methanol is in the yellow bottle and not recommended for diesel as UFO stated

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