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| Towing a cargo trailer, any suggestions http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30536 |
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| Author: | thebigtman [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Towing a cargo trailer, any suggestions |
Hey guys, I'm planning to buy an enclosed cargo trailer to haul some of my toys around the TX, NM, and CO areas. I am thinking about a 6x12 single axle or a 7x16 double axle. I'm not sure of the exact weight of the trailers but i figure that the larger model should weigh about 1500lbs or so unloaded since the frames are generally steel with wood decking and an aluminum shell for the enclosure. I've set up my CRD with the Tekonsha brake controller so I can utilize the electric brakes on the trailer. I will primarily be hauling snowmobiles (yes, I know, why in the heck would I ride those and live in TX) and some ATVs. I don't want an open trailer b/c of the mess in the winter. My question is those of you that have hauled trailers with these wider profiles, have you felt uneasy driving through the mountains (especially when it's windy)? I would like to use the bigger trailer b/c it would provide a little more room and an extra axle for braking and redundancy in case of a tire failure. Thoughts? Worries? Suggestions? I think the CRD should pull it just fine but I'm mostly worried about the larger profile in the windy areas of the mountain. As always, I greatly appreciate all of the intelligent and thought provoking feedback on this forum. |
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| Author: | Joe Romas [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I tow a 17' travel trailer that weights between 3000 and 3500 pounds. I have a WDH (Weight Distrubuting Hitch) and a friction sway control. I've driven on the PA turnpike srounded by semi trucks and at one point was unknowinly going 80 MPH  Never did I feel uneasy about the stability of my rig. Tongue weight is very important. You want 10 to 15% of your total weight on the tongue. And jeep says you need a WDH when your tongue weight is 300 pounds or more 
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| Author: | Uffe [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I have towed a few horses (~4000lbs) through some hills in Denmark (this is all we got) and I feel completely ok doing that. I would not be afraid of towing in mountains either. |
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| Author: | DarbyWalters [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
For mpg sake...make it as low and narrow as you can and still be useful. You probably want to keep the interior 6' tall for easy access and future sale. Maybe use a drop axle(s) to get the overall height down with double axles and low profile tires...and make the front come to a point for aero reasons... |
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| Author: | rpapkey [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
To tell you the truth the only time i've ever been concerned was with my buddies single axle misloaded. Beyond that i've rented 2-3 uhauls mostly 3500lbs(and you know the disrepair those pos's are) and never had any concerns at all. Most of those have surge brakes so i can see how good electrics would be even better. Just be very dilligant about the loading, more so b/c of your shorter wheelbase. <EDIT> Just to clarify i highly advise a double axle. It makes loading a little less of a chore b/c they are generally a little more for and aft stable. MHO of course. |
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I would prefer a tandem |
Over the years I have towed single axles and tandems and would rather have my tandem any day. When I rent U Haul, I prefer to rent tandems as well. Another item is to use the equalizer hitch and balance the load with the right amount of tung weight as recommended by Joe. Before you head for the Mountains, take it for a tow on some of the wide Texas roads and do the whip the steering wheel test to see if the rig comes back and settles down. If it does not have the alignment of the axles checked and measure from axle hub center to center on both sides. Regards, Steve |
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| Author: | litton [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
When loading, make sure you have good tonque wt......~14% of the total wt is good. Lack of tonque wt can make a trailer sway badly. |
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| Author: | RTStabler51 [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I pull my cars with it usually cruising @ 70mph and have no issues. I've gone through the Appalachians a few times. Only issues is going up steep grades you slow a bit.... |
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| Author: | CHevy06 [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would go with the tandam axle trailer just from personal expirience. I towed a uhaul with a tandam axle trailer from Alaska to North Dakota last spring with Silverado I had. It was really stable and I think easier to pull |
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| Author: | tulsa [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Last month I pulled a single axle 6x12 from Tulsa to Ft. Worth, Fayetteville, AR and back to Tulsa. The first and last legs of the trip were done with an empty trailer. The leg from Ft Worth to Fayetteville was loaded. The fuel economy was about the same loaded or unloaded. Average was about 18 mpg. I did not have any problems with crosswinds and the CRD brakes seemed adequate. The trailer I was using had a flat front and I wonder if fuel economy would have improved with a wedge shape at the front of the trailer. I did not weigh the trailer but assumed the loaded trailer to weigh 3-4000 lbs. Overall I was pleased with the performance but wonder what a chip and trailer brakes would have done to improve the trip. Lewis |
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| Author: | Cowcatcher [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I towed the larger, 2 axle U Haul over two mountain passes last summer without issues. I could have towed a smaller trailer as I didn't need all of the space but from my experience 2 axles make a better tow than singles. I got about 18 MPG. I think the U Haul is about 1700 lbs and I was likely 2300 loaded. I didn't notice a change in performance loaded or unloaded. If it were my trailer it would have electric brakes not surge. |
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| Author: | fastRob [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Brakes |
Brakes are a trailer's best friend. Brake away kits for those lost connections. My Airstream gets back in line with a tap of the brake. Get a feel for weight distribution and the hitch settings. The rig should set level; not nose up or down. R |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I currently have a single axle 6x12 box, with a semi-rounded front. Its 1100 empty, close to 4000 full (really full!) and no brakes on the trailer. I wish the balance was better, even loading it carefully I still wind up with 4-500 on the ball. Honestly, I don't see the point of tongue loading that heavily. If you can get it balanced, but not ball-light, for me anyway, that has always pulled the same as ball-heavy. The worst towing I've ever had was with a tow dolly, the double-articulation of the swivel plate got me backwards in the median going 50mph with the towed car driving. Not fun. I've pulled open utility trailers loaded with 2 tons of concrete tiles, and balanced to the point where I could lift the trailer off the ball with just my own hands and non-superman strength... When I can't un-mount a loaded tow dolly or my 6x12 box without using a jack. Never had any problems with sway of those utility trailers, and I've had them up to highway speed too. *shrug* Pulling anything single or double axle, the only point of pivot needs to be the ball. Period. More than that, and maybe ball-heavy would help, but since you can't control ball weight on a dolly... I don't know. I do know that dolly had about 300 lbs of ball weight, which was far more than 10% of the car riding on it. I've pulled most of the Uhaul boxes, those things are WAY overbuilt for their sizes, and are FAR heavier than they need to be when empty. But I do think the tandem axle is a better trailer. Even if it only has brakes on one axle, its still better than a single axle. The weight carrying is spread across more tires, so you get better distribution and load handling. |
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| Author: | fastRob [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tires, Tires, Tires |
What tires are best for towing? What are you using? I have the OME (Original Manufacturers Equipment) on there now and with 21k expect them to go about 25k, maybe a little more. Think the size is right because bigger is not always better so: 225 75 16. Load range C. Thinking Michelin LTX M/S. The tidal boat ramps can get sticky and steep and the load might get near 5k pounds, not at the same time though. Any ideas? R |
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| Author: | thebigtman [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gracias |
Thanks for all the info fellas. A lot of you confirmed what I was thinking and offered some good suggestions. I'm sure tongue weight can be a bit touchy with our rigs due to the short wheelbase. I'll keep a close eye on it. After reading all of your posts, I think I will go with the bigger tandem axle trailer. It has a bit more room anyway. FastRob, the best tires for towing are a highway ribbed design. You may want to consider an all-terrain tire for boat ramp duties though. It depends upon how bad those ramps can be! I looked for the tire you mentioned on the tire rack. I could not find load range C but I did find a D rating. A "D" load rating should be just fine for towing 5K pounds. Does anyone else have any info on the best load range for his application? |
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| Author: | fastRob [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gracias |
thebigtman wrote: ..................................................
After reading all of your posts, I think I will go with the bigger tandem axle trailer. It has a bit more room anyway. FastRob, the best tires for towing are a highway ribbed design. You may want to consider an all-terrain tire for boat ramp duties though. It depends upon how bad those ramps can be! I looked for the tire you mentioned on the tire rack. I could not find load range C but I did find a D rating. A "D" load rating should be just fine for towing 5K pounds. Does anyone else have any info on the best load range for his application? Can you take the trailer for a spin to get a feel for the size and weight? No tires heavier than absolutly necessary for this rig, D is heavy, C would be perfect. R |
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| Author: | chrispitude [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I haven't been able to find any load range C tires in the stock sizes. We switched to a D tire for towing (Pirelli Scorpion ATR). There is definitely an increase in ride harshness, even at only 45psi. We haven't towed with them yet, we bought them late last year on sale for use this season. - Chris |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You own a Jeep. You want cushy ride, sell the Jeep to someone who can appreciate it, and buy a Lincoln. Sorry, but that is just how I feel with everyone constantly commenting about a harsh ride in these things. Maybe its because I'm used to driving bigger vehicles like trucks or motorhomes, but this isn't a limousine. As for tires... Think about tools. Will you buy "good enough" Black and Decker, instead of "heavy duty" Dewalt? Yea, didn't think so. If your product is designed to do far more than you are asking of it, you will get longer life and better overall performance from it. My tires are 215/85/16 LRE BF Goodrich that are currently inflated to the sidewall max of 80psi. Is the ride stiff? Sure, it's much more responsive to the road than the stock Goodyears. The difference is that these are highway tires, just a smaller version of what the big 22.5 truck tires are. Same rubber, same all-steel construction. Before anyone starts saying that they must be wearing in the centers only b/c of the pressure... They aren't. I've checked the tread pattern with a water spot (drive through a puddle and compare the wet tread to the tire width on the ground) and the only advantage to lowering the pressure, is a lengthening of the contact patch. The side-to-side width of the contact patch is identical to the tire. Modern tires (ok, maybe not the cheap Goodyears, or possibly other super-soft rubber tires) are designed to retain their shape with a large variety of pressures, as long as the tire is not overloaded. All-steel tires are great for this, and practically qualify for the "run-flat" designation. Like I said, I personally prefer having a tire that is not being asked to do 90+% of it's rated capacity of work, b/c that tire will fatigue much more readily when working like that. Fatigue is expressed as tire failure. Possibly at highway speeds, which has been shown (Ford Explorer) to kill people. Sorry, I like my safety factors. I do stage rigging work, and I've learned to ALWAYS add my own safety factor to rated items. This is no different. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Forgot to add: I ran these tires down to 20psi b/c I needed to pull a heavily loaded 10k lb gvwr box truck out of some DEEP mud it had gotten itself stuck in. After doing that, I didn't have access to a high-pressure pump, and could only bring them back up to 40psi, which I drove on for a few days. The contact patches were longer, so there was more friction with the road. The width was still the same, and no noticeable "load bulge" just as if they were fully inflated. Just the longer contact patch. I suspect the economy was reduced, but the overall handling was basically the same. So was the ride. It's not terribly harsh, and anyone is welcome to come and drive my KJ around for a bit to test these tires. I really do think they are a great choice for a hard-working Jeep that also wants to get a bump in economy. I get a combined average of 23mpg according to the EVIC, and I don't reset it that often. The next set of tires I need (a LOOOOOONG time from now) will be the same model, but a 235/85/16 so I will get an even larger bump in mileage. |
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| Author: | fastRob [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Up My Alley? |
geordi wrote: Forgot to add: I ran these tires down to 20psi b/c I needed to pull a heavily loaded 10k lb gvwr box truck out of some DEEP mud it had gotten itself stuck in. After doing that, I didn't have access to a high-pressure pump, and could only bring them back up to 40psi, which I drove on for a few days.
.................................................................................................................... I get a combined average of 23mpg according to the EVIC, and I don't reset it that often. The next set of tires I need (a LOOOOOONG time from now) will be the same model, but a 235/85/16 so I will get an even larger bump in mileage. Geordi, My favorites are 235 85 16's on our Sierra. But going through the hassles of lifting the KJ, not in my future. In your previous post you mentioned 215 85 16's. Will check them out. Is this trailer going to get pulled by these puppies? 5,000 lbs? R |
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