Oil Filters! For crd's

CRDMiller · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 10:13 pm

These are oil filters that FIT our trucks I'm trying to get more info on them. Can you help?

Fram: ph 8316 10 micron, burst pressure 265 psi by-pass 14 psi <-- apparently ANY fram that's not a tg, is suicide. The TG is pretty nice, though, so i wont be running outside to change mine, but if it's not a tg... well, here, use my filter wrench.
Fram: tg 8316
mobile 1: m1-301 (big) fits, but is it fit? <-- apparently this particular filter is built very well, i'll be buying these and calling it a day, if i can find by pass and burst.
mobile 1: m1-221
Purolator: ph 25230 30 micron 97.8% 20 micron 85.2% 12-15 by pass
Purolator: pl 25230 30 micron 99.8% 20 micron 99.2% 12-15 by pass
WIX: 51516 paper 20 micron, burst pressure 275 psi, by-pass 8-11 psi 4.8 inch tall 7-9 gpm
WIX: 51773 paper 30 micron, burst pressure 290 psi, by-pass 8-11 psi 6.9 inch tall 7-9 gpm brings crd to 7qt
AMSOIL: EaO34 15 micron 98.7% synthetic cellulose
NAPA: Proselect sfi 21516 cellulose 7-9GPM 4.8 inches tall
NAPA: NASCAR nfi 91516 Syn-cellulose 7-9GPM 4.8 inches tall
NAPA: GOLD fil 1516 cellulose 20 micron? 7-9GPM 4.8 inches tall

I'm not saying one is any better than another, i'm not even trying to go there, but i am trying to figure out the differences, stat wise. Collect some data and let the reader decide for them self. Suprised by the 10 micron fram vs 20 micron wix, wix makes the Mopar and i assume it's the same part? Having greater than required burst pressure is not necessarily an advantage. If you folks can dig up filtration capabilities, that'd be nice as well. I know most of the different company's use different measurements and i don't know how to compare them.

For instance, 10 micron 98% multi pass vs 20 micron 90% single pass? Paper vs Syn media.
And i also assume that more surface area = better, right? aka height/lenght = good if burst and by pass are ok? And i wonder wtf psi wix got their flow rate at. Or is it a measurement of it's maximum useful or maximum 20 micron one pass flow rate? Crap man. so many variables. I figure you can just buy any of em and toss em on and not worry about it, but i still wanna know, and i bet you do, too.

please read this! http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilte ... study.html

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

The Purolator Premium and PureOne both have relief valve at 12-15 psi.
The Premium (P25230) is 97.8% @ 30 microns and 85.2% @ 20 microns.
The PureOne (PL25230) is 99.8% @ 30 microns and 99.2% @ 20 microns.
Sorry, I dont know the burst pressure.

CRDMiller · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 10:29 pm

Longview, do you know the efficiency psi or pass data? 1/2 pass at those rates? Thanks a lot!

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

No, sorry. That was just info from the Purolator site.

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

AMSOIL site list the EaO34 for the CRD.
98.7 percent at 15 microns using a synthetic cellulose media.

CRDMiller · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 12:10 am

Thanks again longview, I foolishly used the model number from the picture in the application guide and not what was written!

onthehunt · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 12:16 am

Wix doesn't make the crd filter unless they make it in Italy. That's where the crd filter comes from. Many filter companies list the 3.7 filter as a crd filter and they will fit. The filters are different as Chrysler installs different filters on the 3.7 and crd.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 1:40 am

M1-301 fits nice and easy... everything lines up i just put one on and there are pics
in the advanced oil sale thread... mix between synthetic and cotton materials that is
all the help i am.

edit...
here is the post
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 637#333637

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

On the Mobile1 filter, I believe M1-211 is the part number, not 221.

CRDMiller · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 10:53 am

Onthehunt, Amsoil application guide offers the wix as a alternative, i'm not saying any of these filters are suitable, i'm saying they will physically fit the engine.

Longview, Partsamerica/kragen offers the m1-211 in thier applicarion guide, as does autozone, However other posts on this forum discuss m1-221. I (incorrectly?) assumed the application guide was wrong and our users were correct? Maby they both fit and one has improper by-pass? We'll figure it out.

I know there is another fram that is exactly the same size and appearance but it has a lower (insufficient) burst pressure rating and I will find that model number.

This crap is confusing and that's why i started this thread!

Does anyone know what negative impact exceeding the burst pressure rating of a particular filter would have?

I'm thinking along the lines of the pressure forcing the particulate matter captured in the media, through the media, or dislocating the media and allowing unfiltered oils to leak around internal filter seals or some such, or even tearing in the case of paper.

Thanks!

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 11:44 am

The bypass valve rating in psi is not for engine oil pressure, but differential pressure across the filter media - it only comes into play if the filter becomes so clogged that it restricts flow to the point that normal oil flow thru it can develop several psi of differential pressure.

And IMHO, if you run the same filter for so long (ie, blow off changing your oil) that it becomes that clogged, or have that much crap in your oil that it clogs the filter to this point with a reasonable change interval - you're either a frakkin idiot or have far more serious problems with the engine than what the setting of the bypass valve in the oil filter is.

But the other idea, larger filter = more surface area for catching crud (and more oil system capacity) = longer filter life and less flow restriction has merit. Several of us use an Amsoil EaO-26 filter - that's the largest physically I've run across that will fit even with the factory skid plates, and adds nearly a 1/2 quart to oil system capacity (an even 7 quarts on an oil change).

Oil filter connection on a CRD has 3/4 - 16 threads - that's one of the OEM standard sizes,and along with the standard size threads, they use standard size gaskets. If an oil filter is sized for 3/4-16 thread and it's length/diameter allow it, it will screw onto our oil filter connection. Whether or not it's a filter you want to use, that's up to you.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 11:46 am

CRDMiller wrote:

Does anyone know what negative impact exceeding the burst pressure rating of a particular filter would have?
Thanks!

Uh maybe it would burst! I had this happen on my first (1978 rabbit) diesel :!:

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 12:39 pm

I run the NAPA (Wix) 1515 which is the same size as one for a Ford V8, the Fram PH8A. DO NOT Run a FRAM Filter!!!!!

Stan Wright · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 1:30 pm

http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/oilfilter.htm

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

retmil46 wrote:

But the other idea, larger filter = more surface area for catching crud (and more oil system capacity) = longer filter life and less flow restriction has merit.

That's true if you are actually running your oil longer between changes as a result. If you are still running the same 6k interval, but using a larger (and more expensive) filter (and more oil), IMO all you are doing is spending extra money you don't need to. And if you do much off roading, the extra size of the filter could become a liability (even with the factory skid plate, Wix filters dangle uncomfortably close to being exposed.)

Onthehunt, the Wix may not be CRD specific, but neither are the Mobil 1, Purolator, Fram, Amsoil, etc... Is there a problem with using a quality oil filter designed for gasser applications in the CRD?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 10:19 pm

The old VW Rabbit diesel had oil filter bursting problems caused by a tight engine and a very tight fitting relief valve plunger and a too small oil pump. Often when it was very cold the oil pressure would go up over 200 PSI, I had a gauge on mine. Later on when VW changed over to hydraulic lifters and developed a new bigger oil pump, the problem went away, my Jetta 1.9 IDI Turbo never had a problem with filter bursting.
Since our VM 2.8 CRDs have turbos and a good sized oil pump that does not need a tight relief valve plunger to make up for a undersized pump, oil filter bursting should not be a problem.

As far as oil filter size goes, older diesel engines had a lot more carbon crud than our CRDs and required larger filters to handle the extra carbon crud between oil changes. If you want more filter look into a by pass filter and decide for your self if you want to spend the money.

Note: Most of the filter bursting on old VW diesels was caused by using an oil filter designed for FORD engines that would screw on and fit but was not the proper filter.

Ripple · **Posted:** Sat May 10, 2008 9:01 am

if you choose the fram might as well get the tough guard, it has better media in it. thats the one I use. guy i know worked in an oil filter lab and recommended it, even over other brands.

its just toilet paper in a tin can right? I don't think it makes a big diff if you stick to the change intervals and protect your investment. all brands meet SAE specs afterall.

CRDMiller · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 2:19 pm

Personally I chose a fram TG, based on nothing else other than the fact it was the only filter listed in stock at the place where I found 0-40 in full synthetic.
( i changed the oil 2 times in 24 hours, because it was my first time, and i forgot the funto!)

People love to bash on fram, but I want to see empirical data.

Assuming the fram data is correct i think i'm going to stick to them, because they are easy to find. I would love to find a 10-15 micron one pass > 98% TALL filter that met or exceeded the other specs. My personal opinion will change as we collect more data, but i think some of you folks, using a 30 micron filter, may not be to happy, it may not even make a difference.

If fram, amsoil, wix, etc, say a particular filter is ok for you, i'm sure it is, within that group, i'm SURE we can find better/more adequate filters. Outside of that, all guarantees are off.

I'll keep updating the first page as we find and verify more info. Thanks again to those of you who helped!.
I plan on mailing the company's and inquiring about the specifics of their test/measurements, and their ratings, I imagine this will take some time.

edited for spelling

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 3:10 pm

I've see a couple of pages like this -
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

someone buys a lot of filters - cuts them open and compares them
I've never seen - analysis of the oil running through the filter - or life span as a result of specific filters

CRDMiller · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:12 pm

Nice one atx, thanks.

I wonder if one could make safe generalizations of a particular filter, for instance fram TG's based on their Ford v8 5.0 model.

Oil Filters! For crd's

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