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Dirty Diesels?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34049		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Dirty Diesels?
I am thinking that this is in the catagory of the 11 MPG Liberty CRD from Consumer Reports:

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_c ... xsdXRlcnM-
Author:  UFO [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
From their own data, the V10 VW gets 16/20 miles/gallon and the Jeep Cherokee CRD gets 17/22. How is that worse than an H2 or Yukon at 13/19 or the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 at 11/14? It seems they just want to put diesels down.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nothing new with consumer reports and their dislike of diesels. Back in 1979 they reviewed VW and Oldsmobile's diesels and I rushed out and bought my first and last copy of their magazine. They put them both down. The Oldsmobile had defective windshield wipers and the Rabbit's door trim would move :shock: Actually the trim on the Rabbit floated in platic anchors that isolated the metal from the door and kept it from rusting :wink: From that moment on I have never trusted a single word they printed :lol: Let alone their article on infant safety seats :roll:
Author:  Threeweight [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you read the entire article, it includes this:

"...A new version of Volkswagen's Touareg is among a group of next-generation diesel vehicles from Audi (owned by Volkswagen), BMW, Mercedes-Benz and others. These new and improved diesels will include special catalytic converters and a system that injects urea into the exhaust stream to neutralize pollutants and drastically reduce emissions.

They will start hitting the market late this year and are expected to receive an EPA air pollution score of 6. That’s enough to pass California’s stricter emissions standards, which so far have kept diesel vehicles from being sold there and in other so-called “green" states that have adopted California’s emissions laws: Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington. "

Though I agree about Consumer Reports. I recently got into an argument with someone over their 10 mpg CRD fuel economy claim who insisted that real world driving experience of drivers here at lost KJ didn't matter because our individual experiences could not be replicated identically with a test, and that the Consumer Reports test was an accurate indication of what mpg to expect from a CRD because it was objective and could be replicated.

He refused to comprehend that a repeatable test which reliably produces inaccurate results does not equal good science.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
No emission testing require here in Island County, WA. Wahoo! :lol:
Author:  geordi [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Emissions testing is a monetary tax on the citizens making them pay for the stupidity of the legal body, and granting free profits to the testing company. It solves NOTHING as newer vehicles will always pass, and older vehicles that might not, don't make up a significant portion of the driving public.

(Except in Kalifornia) If you REALLY want to get rid of the polluting vehicles, impound every car with expired mexican plates.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Consumer reports says that the EPA base their scores on the carbon footprint of each vehicle. They must have a new understanding of mathematics because by my calculations the GC SRT emits 26442 lbs of CO2 based on 19.4 pounds emitted per gallon of gasoline times 15000 miles driven per year and the Tuareg produces 20812 lbs based on 22.2 lbs produced from diesel times the same 15000 miles driven per year. Can you say skewed results? I wonder where GM sent the author of that article for vacation? Somehow the Yukon hybrid got the highest score at a measly 21/22 mpg.
Author:  geordi [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
And of course, don't forget that the Yustink Hybrid would have been calculated based on the availability of E85 (which ISN'T available to 98% of the country's drivers) while the diesel would be calculated with the worst grade of fuel they could get. Never mind trying it with B100, for a net carbon footprint of 0.00000

Consumer Reports has ALWAYS been an industry shill. They follow the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Author:  WolverineFW [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Consumer Reports is not a valuable source of accurate information. Their tests are nowhere near close to being scientifically based. They tend to manipulate the tests as they see fit.
Author:  truckbouy2 [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:15 am ]
Post subject: 
I wonder what the "carbon foot print" rating is for the paper required to print Consumer Reports ????
I find it hard to believe how many folks consider this land fill fodder the last word on anything.
I do think that if a mere 41.3% of these fools writing all these carbon foot print the sky is falling articles would go and get industrial produce something employment,
America would once again be a great industrial supplier for the world. Instead of rapidly becoming a third world dependent kitten hoping for a few inferior disease ridden scraps from
who knows where.
Author:  fastRob [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Great To Be here
I have felt like Sancho Panza and Don Quixote fighting against windmills reading chit like that.
What a breath of fresh air this thread is!
Boys, the world is going insane, hang on we are in for a wild and crazy ride.
Author:  dieseldoesit [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Great To Be here
fastRob wrote:
I have felt like Sancho Panza and Don Quixote fighting against windmills reading chit like that.
What a breath of fresh air this thread is!
Boys, the world is going insane, hang on we are in for a wild and crazy ride.


Fighting against windmills? Why?
Author:  Threeweight [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fighting what? I agree the Consumer Reports tests are stupid, but clean diesels that meet the new air rules are here. Not from US automakers, but that has nothing to do with the specs being technologically impossible to meet.

VW dealers here in Portland already have waiting lists for the new Jetta TDI's. Just wish they had not gone bug-nuts on the high performance aspect of the new ones, and had paid more attention to MPG. I don't think diesels are going to catch on as passenger vehicles at $5 a gallon fuel, unless the fuel economy is so vastly superior to a standard gasser that average Joe or Jill overcomes their sticker shock.

Even with no clean air rules, the $5 fuel would still be a deal killer for most Americans.
Author:  UFO [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Great To Be here
dieseldoesit wrote:
fastRob wrote:
I have felt like Sancho Panza and Don Quixote fighting against windmills reading chit like that.
What a breath of fresh air this thread is!
Boys, the world is going insane, hang on we are in for a wild and crazy ride.


Fighting against windmills? Why?
If you haven't read Don Quixote by Cervantes, make it a priority !!
Author:  warp2diesel [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Flaw?
"The Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI has a carbon footprint of 12.4, which means it emits 12.4 tons of greenhouse gases annually, according to the EPA’s standard calculations based on 15,000 miles of driving per year. Burning one gallon of gasoline emits 20 pounds of carbon dioxide, the EPA says."

Out of a 7.xx pound gallon of gasoline, thats a lot of oxygen grabbing onto the carbon. Does that mean that a tree must consume 20 pounds of CO2 to make 7 pounds of wood and liberate 13 pounds of oxygen?
How inefficient, those darn trees!
That is less efficient than our diesels!

Do these Consumer Reports people gain 20 pounds for every pound of food they eat, maybe they need to take some Exlax or just exhale :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Author:  dieseldoesit [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Great To Be here
UFO wrote:
dieseldoesit wrote:
fastRob wrote:
I have felt like Sancho Panza and Don Quixote fighting against windmills reading chit like that.
What a breath of fresh air this thread is!
Boys, the world is going insane, hang on we are in for a wild and crazy ride.


Fighting against windmills? Why?
If you haven't read Don Quixote by Cervantes, make it a priority !!


I got it, took the windmill thing way too literally... dang defenses start coming out to quick I guess. Thanks for helping this tard out. 8)
Author:  geordi [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Flaw?
warp2diesel wrote:
"The Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI has a carbon footprint of 12.4, which means it emits 12.4 tons of greenhouse gases annually, according to the EPA’s standard calculations based on 15,000 miles of driving per year. Burning one gallon of gasoline emits 20 pounds of carbon dioxide, the EPA says."

Out of a 7.xx pound gallon of gasoline, thats a lot of oxygen grabbing onto the carbon. Does that mean that a tree must consume 20 pounds of CO2 to make 7 pounds of wood and liberate 13 pounds of oxygen?
How inefficient, those darn trees!
That is less efficient than our diesels!

Do these Consumer Reports people gain 20 pounds for every pound of food they eat, maybe they need to take some Exlax or just exhale :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


Behold the power of paid-for fuzzy math.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Flaw?
warp2diesel wrote:
"The Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI has a carbon footprint of 12.4, which means it emits 12.4 tons of greenhouse gases annually, according to the EPA’s standard calculations based on 15,000 miles of driving per year. Burning one gallon of gasoline emits 20 pounds of carbon dioxide, the EPA says."

Out of a 7.xx pound gallon of gasoline, thats a lot of oxygen grabbing onto the carbon. Does that mean that a tree must consume 20 pounds of CO2 to make 7 pounds of wood and liberate 13 pounds of oxygen?
How inefficient, those darn trees!
That is less efficient than our diesels!

Do these Consumer Reports people gain 20 pounds for every pound of food they eat, maybe they need to take some Exlax or just exhale :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


Actually the EPA is close to the money on the weight of expelled CO2. It's just simple basic chemistry. The average molecule of diesel has 12 atoms of carbon. the atomic weight of carbon is ~12. Add 2 atoms of oxygen with an atomic weight of ~16 to each and you get a weight of 44. 44 x12=528 which is 3.6 times the weight of the initial carbon in each diesel molecule. Subtract the weight of 13 hydrogens and other compounds produced from each diesel molecule and the average output of one gallon of diesel is 22.2 pounds of CO2. Gasoline emits about 19.4 Lbs of CO2. See, it's just simple chemistry :?
Author:  warp2diesel [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  RE: Flaw
What about the gallon of water produced by every gallon of fuel. This will cause more rain and grow more plants to use up the CO2 and liberate the oxygen. I do not doubt the chemistry calculations, just the fear mongering that is being used for political agenda and a way to have those who have lots of money grab more.
For example, T Boon Pickins is not pushing Wind Turbines, Solar Panels, and Natural Gas with out a plan to stay on top.
One law of nature is to follow the money.
Author:  danoid [ Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE: Flaw
Jim Gorzelany, ForbesAuto.com wrote:
The Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI has a carbon footprint of 12.4, which means it emits 12.4 tons of greenhouse gases annually, according to the EPA’s standard calculations based on 15,000 miles of driving per year. Burning one gallon of gasoline emits 20 pounds of carbon dioxide, the EPA says.

Technically the Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI will have a carbon footprint of nearly zero if it burns more than one gallon of gasoline. The repair bill, however, will leave a large footprint in somones wallet...

Jim Gorzelany, ForbesAuto.com wrote:
We also excluded exotic Bentleys, Ferraris and Lamborghinis because they're produced in such limited quantities and so few consumers would consider buying one.

I happen to live and work near Volkswagen's North America Headquarters in Auburn Hills. I see more Bentlys, Ferraris and Lamborghinis than I see Touareg TDI's, and I have a habit of looking for the little TDI (or CRD) badge. Has anyone actually seen a V10 TDI? I heard that they weren't really for sale in the US.
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