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| Does a CCV Oil collector need overpressure protection? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34055 |
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| Author: | Bill.Barg [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Does a CCV Oil collector need overpressure protection? |
With the discovery of new CCV oil collection options, I seems like the issue of pressure relief functionality will become the distinguishing characteristics between say, the Provent and the new Saikou unit. I can claim no special expertise myself, but I figure the extra $100 is worth it for the over pressure relief (0.7psi). For instance... with the Saikou unit... how would you know if the system was clogged and pressurising the crankcase? Can the Saikou unit be opened to see the condition of the permanent mesh/ filter to gauge clogging? Do you add a pressure gauge for occasional inspection, or do you go by the oil dripping out of the main seals on the engine? |
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| Author: | ccattie [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
My only question about the pressure relief is what could cause the pressure to build up? Would it be common for debris to get stuck in the can? How often does debris get introduced into the system before we mess with cans or provents? -c |
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| Author: | Uffe [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Easiest way to make sure there is nothing clogging the oil catch can up is by removing it and blowing air through it. No high-tech stuff needed to check that, that's for sure. I made my installation easy to remove using garden hose fittings with thread and fingerscrews (not naitive english speaking person, I make up my own words). Easiest thing in the world to remove. |
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| Author: | chrispitude [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You could potentially drill a 1/8" hole (or a few of them) through metal mesh filter media to avoid a pressure buildup if the mesh becomes very clogged. I may do this. - Chris |
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| Author: | Bill.Barg [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Drill the mesh, Can you get access to the inside or is it welded together? |
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| Author: | UFO [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
My opinion is your engine has more serious problems than a pressurized crankcase if the CCV plugs. |
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| Author: | ATXKJ [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes - someone accidentally pinched a hose on a Provent and ended up with errors - so a clogged system would also be a problem. |
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| Author: | ccattie [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
IIRC the internal tube has small holes in it to prevent a build up. -c chrispitude wrote: You could potentially drill a 1/8" hole (or a few of them) through metal mesh filter media to avoid a pressure buildup if the mesh becomes very clogged. I may do this.
- Chris |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The Racors do vent................ |
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Follow PM |
Sounds like another bell and whistle. Does not the outlet vent into the air intake? Clean it out when you do other PM. Prevent is designed for the typical idiot driver who does not know where the hood latch is, that way MANN does not need a full time legal staff. |
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| Author: | Bill.Barg [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
gmctd wrote: The Racors do vent................
Was this a tacit approval of the requirement of a vent, GMCTD? |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Tacit, indeed - plus, the 2.8L VM has prolly twice the effluent outta the CCV that the 1.9L VW TDI exudes (which emission is why you seldom see 4-cyl Diesel engines over 2.0L for the LD passenger car venues), so likely more coalescing screening will be necessary for adequate precipitation - vent is for incident of neglect, where filter is plugged with soot, never a problem in gasser (patooie!) systems, and crankcase backfire, which Diesels can and sometimes do, also from neglect, where excessive vapors cannot escape the crankcase - oem mfrs\vendors can only judge you by the color of yer money - hence, the vent on, shall we say, professional systems |
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| Author: | DDom [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
ironically i just posted at group buy thread about this very issue. I EMPhatically say overpressure relief is Mandatory! some experiences should not be duplicated. |
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| Author: | chrispitude [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I still think a 1/8" hole through the filter meshes is probably sufficient to avoid pressure buildup in the event of a complete mesh clog. ccattie, would you be able to contact the gentleman at Saikou and ask him for more details about how overpressure is handled in the event that the mesh clogs up? A description would be good, pictures would be even better. It's not completely clear to me how the pressure relief holes in this diagram will accomplish this. - Chris |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
May be some confusion, here - the safety relief vent should be to the atmosphere, not across the element....................... |
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| Author: | KeighJeigh [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
How about drilling a hole in the Saikou can and threading in your own pressure relief? There are probably many ways to make a pressure relief mechanism and it would be simple to test by crimping the can outlet and seeing if it activates. I suppose you could also put a small pressure sensor & alarm on it or perhaps even a whistle like your tea kettle. 
Lots of possibilities..... |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yep - then we could sell'em to the gasser (patooie!) guys, so the engine would sound like they had a turbo, also |
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| Author: | ccattie [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Could somebody explain to me how it would get clogged so bad it needs a relief system? Does the system the can is correcting have pressure relief? -c |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes - as I indicated earlier, Diesel engines occasionally suffer from crankcase backfire, a combustion event resulting from excessive vapors and pressure in the crankcase and valve cover(s), usually from blocked vent path - CCV systems port the vapors directly into the intake tract - any precipitation results in some liquid in the c\a cooler, but intake path is always open - CCV traps, such as Provent and Racor, offer a reservoir to trap those precipitated liquids, to be drained at owner discretion, or via one-way valve into the crankcase, or directly into the oil sump - of those methods, directly into the sump is best, as all liquids tend to seek their own level - into the crankcase area via one-way valve is next best, but the valve can fail, resulting in full reservoir - Science 101: liquids are denser than vapor - intake vacuum keeps the valve closed while engine is running- shut-down, vacuum equalizes, and the denser accumulated oil opens the valve, draining into the crankcase - scenario: valve sticks, reservoir fills, blocks intake port, crankcase vapors and pressure builds, and pyrotechnics ensue - safety vent is needed for CCV catch-cans, but not for CCV system - again, the vent is external to atmosphere, not across the filter between the chambers |
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| Author: | chrispitude [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think the scenario I'm most concerned about is cold-weather clogging. Let's say it's 0F out and you start up your CRD. The mesh inside the can is now quite cold, and water vapor could potentially freeze onto the mesh and clog it. I like KeighJeigh's idea of installing a pressure relief valve if it comes down to that. I think I'll email the Saikou Michi fellow and bounce this cold-weather scenario off him. I'll let you guys know what I hear. - Chris |
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