With GM Merger Jeep Lives, but Liberty dies

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

http://www.freep.com/article/20081030/B ... 3/1118/RSS

mackruss · **Posted:** Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:04 pm

Well i guess my already bad resale value has just crashed even further with that news

tonycrd · **Posted:** Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:18 pm

Quote:

Seven core models are likely to survive: Dodge Ram, Dodge Caravan, Chrysler Town & Country, Dodge Charger, Dodge Caliber, Jeep Wrangler and Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Yeah, really good call GM. That will kill all your export sales with one blow.

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:46 pm

I was reading this AM that the Gov. turned down GM's request for the 10 Billion it wanted to make the deal.

Terry

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:13 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Quote:

Seven core models are likely to survive: Dodge Ram, Dodge Caravan, Chrysler Town & Country, Dodge Charger, Dodge Caliber, Jeep Wrangler and Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Yeah, really good call GM. That will kill all your export sales with one blow.

I think thats just someones speculation(and poor speculation that doesn't take into account overseas sales), I honestly cannot see them keeping the caliber over the liberty.

Fulltimer wrote:

I was reading this AM that the Gov. turned down GM's request for the 10 Billion it wanted to make the deal.

Terry

Yes I read that too.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:24 pm

They want 10 billion, AND they want to flush 75,000 jobs between themselves and the affected suppliers? Heck no! I say the first thing that needs to happen if they want to pull something like this is a complete closure of any non-US plant that ships vehicles INTO the US market. You want to build GM crap in Mexico and China? Fine. You can only SELL them to Mexico and China. Not here.

Its not even about the use of the UAW, but it IS about GM's arrogance with building cars cheaper, and not passing along the savings. (and the sneaky push to get this done by Tuesday before the climate changes)

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Pure speculation, but I'd imagine GM wanted to make the deal (and get the federal $$) tomorrow, believing it would come with fewer strings attached (labor, environmental, and paying back) pre-election than it would post election. Problem is that the only people really interested in giving GM the money are the Democratic politicians from Michigan.

While this has been billed as a save Chrysler plan, it is really a re-finance GM plan. They would end up shutting down a huge portion of Chrysler's production in the short term, and in the long term it makes no sense for them to keep redundant models (like a Ram 2500 and a Duramax 2500). I'd honestly rather see a better managed foreign company take over Chrysler than see GM take it, hack it to bits, keep a handful good models (like the Wrangler) and kill the rest, all on the taxpayer's dime.

One small but compelling personal interest I have in all this is the much-anticipated 6 cylinder clean diesels we heard so much about last year. Remember Dodge, Ford, and GM all promising small (4-4.6 liter) diesels in their 1/2 ton pickups? Ford and GM have nixed the idea. To me, it seems like one of the only possible bright spots in Chrysler's potential model line up. A Dakota that delivers 20 mpg city, 30 mpg highway and could tow 7500 pounds would be a coup, but it will never happen if the geniuses who brought us the Hummer H3 and Pontiac Aztek are in charge.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:15 pm

We need bean counters in Government to cut costs in places besides Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters, and National defense. Cutting corporate welfare handouts such as providing $10 billion for GM to buy Chrysler is a good place to start.

Is stupid junk like the $10 billion handout to GM to buy Chrysler one reason the approval rating of the U.S. Congress is 9% as of today?

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Safe to say this idea is dead for now. It is now abundantly clear the idea was really about GM getting more handouts from taxpayers pre-election, rather than a plan for actually saving Chrysler and their employees.

UPDATE: GM Warns It Could Run Out Of Cash By 1st Half '09
Dow Jones
November 07, 2008: 12:40 PM EST

DETROIT -(Dow Jones)- General Motors Corp. (GM) warned Friday that it risks running out of cash in the first half of next year without government intervention or a reversal of weakening market conditions.

GM also indicated that merger talks with Chrysler LLC had ended, stating that the "possibility of a strategic acquisition" had been set-aside to focus on liquidity.

Without government intervention, a significant increase in auto sales or " substantial" proceeds from asset sales, GM said its cash on hand will reach critical levels by the end of 2008, after burning through another $6.9 billion in the September quarter.

GM shares were down 11.9% at $4.23 following the delayed earnings release.

Liquidity would fall below mandatory levels in the first half of 2009, the company warned as it reported a $2.5 billion loss for the quarter.

It will look to raise an additional $5 billion in cash, in addition to the earlier $15 billion it previously said it planned to raise.

New cost-cutting moves would include $2.5 billion in capital spending reductions, a $500 million reduction in salaried worker expenses and $1.5 billion in additional structural cost reductions in North America.

The company's cash and liquidity position fell to $16.2 billion at the end of the quarter compared with $21 billion at June 30. GM has said it must maintain $ 11 billion to $14 billion in cash.

GM said it is on track to complete $10 billion of its fundraising plans by 2009. But the global financial turmoil has cast uncertainty on GM's plan to raise $2 billion to $3 billion through capital market activity. GM said it has $ 20 billion in unencumbered assets to leverage for secured debt, but " inaccessible" credit markets have put that cash out of reach.

In announcing the need for further cuts, GM is now planning for U.S. auto sales of 11.7 million cars and trucks in 2008 and 12.7 million in 2009, down from the 14 million it planned on in June.

Cost reductions will include further production cuts deeper reductions in its salaried workforce. GM increased its salaried cost reduction target to 30% in Canada and the U.S. up from an early goal of 20%. GM also will extend cuts into the slumping Western European region.

The third-quarter results suggest that GM, in cost-cutting mode since 2005, is running out of options to keep its business afloat amid worsening conditions.

Like Chrysler and Ford Motor Co. (F), GM is seeking financial assistance from the U.S. government. Ford said Friday that it was among auto makers looking for a total of 40 billion euros in loans from European governments.

"The U.S. government's actions to help stabilize the credit markets and eventually ease the credit crunch are an essential first step to the economy's and the auto industry's recovery, but further strong action is required," said GM Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner in a release.

The company reported a net loss of $2.5 billion, or $4.45 a share in the latest quarter, worse than analysts' expectations.

GM pointed to "moderating" demand in China, Australia and India, with Latin America, Africa and the Middle East the only region to report higher year-on- year profits.

What started as a tough year in the U.S. has become what GM described this week as the worst sales environment since the end of World War II.

GM posted an eye-popping 45% sales decline in October, with demand for profitable pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles down even further.

Toyota Motor Corp. (TM), which has overtaken GM as the world's largest auto maker, this week cut its full-year earnings forecast by more than half after reporting a 69% drop in fiscal second-quarter profits.

Earlier Friday, Ford announced wide-ranging cost cuts after burning through $ 7.7 billion in cash in the third quarter, as revenue plunged in a rapidly deteriorating auto market. Ford reported a 22% decline in net revenue in announcing a $3 billion operating loss for the quarter.

-By Sharon Terlep, Dow Jones Newswires; 248-204-5532; sharon.terlep@ dowjones.com

mackruss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:26 am

Okay so no need to rush out and stock up with Jeep spares at this stage.

What is the general feeling in the US post election with regards to DC and its future plans with Chrysler.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

From the newspaper story I read over the weekend, it sounds like the Democratic politicians from Michigan want a bailout for all 3 US automakers, some economists agree (because if the car companies go kaput, all the associated parts suppliers, demand for steel/aluminum/rubber/etc... goes away and further deepens the recession). But current Congress and President aren't sure what to do or even if they want to try anything at all, and new President and Congress don't start work till late January.

I'd rather see any $$ to the automakers come in the form of incentives and retooling dollars, rather than a straight handout. Give them a loan for retooling factories, on the condition that they 1) pay the loan back with interest over 10 years, and 2) they improve their fleet-wide fuel economy by a specific amount (with no BS ethanol "flex fuel" credit crap). Then offer consumers incentives to buy new vehicles that get better mpg (modeled after the hybrid tax credits that worked so well). Help the automakers retool to make better vehicles, help consumers afford to buy those vehicles.

Of course, the current regime will likely give them $50 billion to be spent on dividends and bonus pay for CEO's.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:14 pm

Threeweight wrote:

One small but compelling personal interest I have in all this is the much-anticipated 6 cylinder clean diesels we heard so much about last year. Remember Dodge, Ford, and GM all promising small (4-4.6 liter) diesels in their 1/2 ton pickups? Ford and GM have nixed the idea.

GM's new half ton diesel, the one with the turbo between the valley is still a go :lol:

automotive weekly just did another story on it. This time they covered the area of the crank journals. They are using a "fractured" main bearing cap that requires less machining. It also has a aluminum sub pan that adds strength to the bottom of the block There's space around the mainbearing journals in the block that are supposed to reduce "pumping" that is a result of pistons moving displacing air and adding a drag to the bottom end.

Joe

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:43 pm

Yes the GM 4.5L engine is still a "go" but has been postponed a year as have all new GM product development.

The Ford 4.4L engine has been mothballed indefinitely due to some issues and lack of funding.

So far the Cummins 5.0L for the 1500 still has the green light and is on track

mackruss · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:38 am

Threeweight

That's your sig, can you advise where i can find pics or info of the TDI Wagonguy's CCV filter and if you find it working okay.

2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Looks like this:

Chrispitude has photos on a web page:

http://www.chrispitude.net/index.php?al ... 00&start=0

They were built by a guy who started making them for VW Jetta diesels, who have the same kind of CCV system as our CRD's. You can find him over on the TDIclub.com forums.

Mine works fine. I mounted it up by the transmission ECU rather than by the airbox (w/ the V6 airbox mod there really isn't room). I'm thinking about building a new one using 3" PVC instead of 2", to try and reduce the height of the unit without losing volume. Its a bit of a pain to mount something so tall. I'll prob use steel wool for the filter element in a new one.

mackruss · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:50 pm

Thanks, sorry for changing the subject guys, back to DC now.

With GM Merger Jeep Lives, but Liberty dies

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