Fuel prices

bdptp73 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:53 pm

RUL $1.24 Diesel $2.39
I was happy to fill the jeep up for under $50 the other day. the most it took me in July was $91, but if the prices were reversed I could fiil the jeep for under $25. I know this has been beat to death but market prices are only $.52 difference (Bloomberg.com) between gas and heating oil, so why am I paying $1.15 more. The one thing that makes it all worth it is the Jeep's 4x4 traction in the snow compared to my Dakota's 2wd.

I blocked off the grill to help the jeep warm up a little better and went from 21mpg to 23mpg. I'm kind of curious to see if unplugging the SEGR for the winter would be a positive or a negative. I think I'll leave it plugged in.

Jason

gsbrockman · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:09 pm

$2.459/gal for #2 at Speedway, Exit 76 and I-75 in Berea, KY Saturday.......put right at 31 gallons in my 2007.5 RAM 3500 MegaCab 6.7L for $75.62......I remember paying over $4.79/gal just this past May.

Glad it's dropping back down !

Greg

Wobbly · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:02 pm

$2.29 low, $3.19 high in Portland, Oregon area. Having a Costco or Safeway fuel retailer nearby seems to increase fuel price competition.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:01 pm

Except I have yet to see a Costco selling anything other than 2 grades of gasoline. No diesel.

Now the Sams club near me in Savannah sells diesel... And it is the MOST expensive for miles around!

They suck.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I realize that lower Diesel prices are great. It is wonderful to be paying $ 2.59/gal instead of $4.99/gallon (my highest). However, the real killer is the current spread between rug and diesel which is now (here) almost 60% higher for diesel. I don't understand it. I realize its winter and #2 is used for home heating, but in years past it has never been more than about 25%.

Maybe someone can explain it to me.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:13 pm

$2.49 at Speedway, filled up yesterday.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:17 pm

They covered that in yesterday's news paper. First, right now diesel is competing with fuel oil. Second the world demand for Diesel is going up. Third with the economic down turn people are not driving as much and there's a glut of gasoline

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:16 pm

You forgot the biggest issue, and the one that the papers won't talk about: In the so-called 'free market' where the refineries aren't owned by the oil producing companies (ha ha, yea right) they would be producing for their local areas.

Not so: The USA's refineries are producing diesel as fast as possible... And shipping it right out of the country to Europe. This was never done to this scale before Bush, but now, a HUGE amount is pumped right out of this country's supplies, which (oh, the shock) drives up the profits, err prices for the stuff here.

Add to that, the fun of taking a $1 per MIXED GALLON tax theft from the US Citizens by mixing to 1% biodiesel, and another biofuel tax credit (also on the entire shipment, not just on the bio component) from the EU... And you see where the REAL profits are.

If it costs (hypothetically) $3 per gallon to produce and refine the stuff, and you can sell it for $4... Thats good profit. But isn't it MUCH better if it costs $3 to make, but you get $1 from the US, and $1 from the EU... For NOTHING basically... And you STILL sell it for $4? Hmm, doubled the profits! Yay for the CEO, give him another bonus!

That may be an oversimplification, but it is basically what has been happening. And you KNOW it doesn't cost anywhere NEAR $3 per gallon to get it from the dirt to the pump with the volume they do.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:19 am

Because they can.
BTW Geordi, the federal biofuel tax credit is rated by the percentage of biofuel in the blend. If it only has 1% then the credit is only 1c.

Uffe · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:01 am

geordi wrote:

You forgot the biggest issue, and the one that the papers won't talk about: In the so-called 'free market' where the refineries aren't owned by the oil producing companies (ha ha, yea right) they would be producing for their local areas.

Not so: The USA's refineries are producing diesel as fast as possible... And shipping it right out of the country to Europe. This was never done to this scale before Bush, but now, a HUGE amount is pumped right out of this country's supplies, which (oh, the shock) drives up the profits, err prices for the stuff here.

Add to that, the fun of taking a $1 per MIXED GALLON tax theft from the US Citizens by mixing to 1% biodiesel, and another biofuel tax credit (also on the entire shipment, not just on the bio component) from the EU... And you see where the REAL profits are.

If it costs (hypothetically) $3 per gallon to produce and refine the stuff, and you can sell it for $4... Thats good profit. But isn't it MUCH better if it costs $3 to make, but you get $1 from the US, and $1 from the EU... For NOTHING basically... And you STILL sell it for $4? Hmm, doubled the profits! Yay for the CEO, give him another bonus!

That may be an oversimplification, but it is basically what has been happening. And you KNOW it doesn't cost anywhere NEAR $3 per gallon to get it from the dirt to the pump with the volume they do.

Why would they sell it to you? You'll obviously not pay the price for the good stuff.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:18 pm

Good stuff? Barely-40 cetane is good stuff? I WANT to buy better fuel, and I buy B100 whenever I can afford it. What I'm railing about is that the oil industry pisses and moans about lack of supply in the US driving up the prices... When THEY ARE CAUSING IT. The USA wasn't a net exporter of refined fuels before the last few years, we were an importer of crude oil and exported empty ships. The whole point was that during the aftermath of Katrina, none of our refineries in the Gulf Coast were online, so we were importing refined fuel from everyone to make up the shortfall.

I have no problem with that, just as we would send refined product in an emergency to anyone else needing it. But the NORMAL process is that each region / country has operated their own refineries to produce fuel for the local markets. Sailing it across the sea from a central producer is silly, it wastes even more fuel in transit and raises the costs. There must be some benefit to the oil companies to do it, and OOH, I KNOW I KNOW!!! Artificially creating a shortage in the world's largest fuel consumer... Means extra profits on the backs of the economy!

It isn't that I am against a company making a fair profit. It is the operative word there: FAIR. Much of the behavior that has caused the current economic woes can be summed up by one attitude in each industry: me first, let someone else hold the bag while I rape and pillage. Japan just got done with a big economic downturn, and learned a few things. They operate their businesses with some ETHICS. If the economy suffers because of predatory behavior, then EVERYONE will suffer. The CEOs over there are WILLINGLY reducing their own salaries to help ensure the continued employment of their workers, AND the survival of the company.

Can you name even ONE American CEO that has come out and said that the compensation levels for the entire board are too high? The ratio used to be about 40. The top pay (The CEO) would get 40 times more than the lowest rank and file employee. Now, its about 400 times.

GM has been holding their hand out for assistance from the US taxpayer, while announcing that they are CLOSING plants in the USA, and opening plants in Mexico and China. You think those Mexican and Chinese-built cars aren't destined for the USA? Predatory ceo-first behavior. No ethics. Firing your worker, who is ALSO your customer... Who's gonna buy your widget when he doesn't have any job / money?

Dow Chemical just announced a big layoff and closings of a few plants... And the reaction from Wall Street? The stock skyrocketed, like they were printing money.

They are still behaving in a me-first way, and the result will be a further degradation of the economy. AROUND THE WORLD. OPEC artificially created a shortage in the 70s, and it came back to bite them in the booty. This diesel price issue is the same situation, just with different names.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:19 pm

geordi has a good point, those who take the high risk and over play their hand should pay the price, CEOs who break the law along with elected officials (like Chris Dodd) who do should be prosecuted.

If we only had people in the Justice Department who could read the law and get to work.

Heck, if they rounded up enough of them, the Tribune might emerge from Bankruptcy :!:

Uffe · **Posted:** Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:07 am

geordi wrote:

Good stuff? Barely-40 cetane is good stuff? I WANT to buy better fuel, and I buy B100 whenever I can afford it. What I'm railing about is that the oil industry pisses and moans about lack of supply in the US driving up the prices... When THEY ARE CAUSING IT.

Err, the suppliers causing a lack of supplies? Wouldn't the consumers cause a "lack of supply" instead? So what you mean is that because they make money on supplying it to someone else THEY cause the problem? I get that, sort of. Still it's an open market, if they can sell it to someone else for a higher price this is the way of the capitalistic market.

I just don't understand who in europe will buy barely-40 cetane diesel, we got much better diesel here already. You sure this isn't ship-grade diesel? Which would explain why they sail away with it, it's their own fuel!

geordi wrote:

The USA wasn't a net exporter of refined fuels before the last few years, we were an importer of crude oil and exported empty ships. The whole point was that during the aftermath of Katrina, none of our refineries in the Gulf Coast were online, so we were importing refined fuel from everyone to make up the shortfall.

I have no problem with that, just as we would send refined product in an emergency to anyone else needing it. But the NORMAL process is that each region / country has operated their own refineries to produce fuel for the local markets. Sailing it across the sea from a central producer is silly, it wastes even more fuel in transit and raises the costs. There must be some benefit to the oil companies to do it, and OOH, I KNOW I KNOW!!! Artificially creating a shortage in the world's largest fuel consumer... Means extra profits on the backs of the economy!

Generally I'm with you on this. Local production is good, in some cases at least. But since we get all of our stuff made in China now, we're a bit hypocritical as a country (Denmark and the US probably does the same thing - move production facilities to China).

geordi wrote:

It isn't that I am against a company making a fair profit. It is the operative word there: FAIR. Much of the behavior that has caused the current economic woes can be summed up by one attitude in each industry: me first, let someone else hold the bag while I rape and pillage. Japan just got done with a big economic downturn, and learned a few things. They operate their businesses with some ETHICS. If the economy suffers because of predatory behavior, then EVERYONE will suffer. The CEOs over there are WILLINGLY reducing their own salaries to help ensure the continued employment of their workers, AND the survival of the company.

Can you name even ONE American CEO that has come out and said that the compensation levels for the entire board are too high? The ratio used to be about 40. The top pay (The CEO) would get 40 times more than the lowest rank and file employee. Now, its about 400 times.

GM has been holding their hand out for assistance from the US taxpayer, while announcing that they are CLOSING plants in the USA, and opening plants in Mexico and China. You think those Mexican and Chinese-built cars aren't destined for the USA? Predatory ceo-first behavior. No ethics. Firing your worker, who is ALSO your customer... Who's gonna buy your widget when he doesn't have any job / money?

Dow Chemical just announced a big layoff and closings of a few plants... And the reaction from Wall Street? The stock skyrocketed, like they were printing money.

They are still behaving in a me-first way, and the result will be a further degradation of the economy. AROUND THE WORLD. OPEC artificially created a shortage in the 70s, and it came back to bite them in the @$#%. This diesel price issue is the same situation, just with different names.

You must be really cross with the capitalistic system then. These stupid things come from the free market - what we really need is not a purely free market but a market with regulation on how much you can transport things around to increase their price by polluting as much as possible on transport.