Frozen mounts?

bewestro · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:01 pm

Hello,

The Jeep did something new today that caught my attention. When I drove to work this morning, it was about 40 and slushy, and everything was normal. Came out later in the day, it dropped to about 24 and very windy. On startup, there was much more vibration than usual. Steering wheel was shaking, and you could feel it in the floorboards. Let it run a few minutes, no change. Drove off carefully, vibes went away or at least became much less perceptible above idle. Engine starts, runs, and sounds perfect, no hiccups, skips, smoke, loss of power, etc. Drove it 6 different times today, noticed the vibration a few times. It kinda seems to come and go. I thought of loose motor mounts, but most people report a "clunk" and there was definitely no clunk under any circumstances. More than that, though, it's now 14 and howling and pitch black and I don't feel like going outside trying to check for bolts that sound nearly impossible to reach anyway. =)

Also, underway, it is perfectly smooth -- no drivetrain binding, TC slipping/catching, etc. And it's not a horrendous, wrenching, earthquake rattle of death either, just noticeably more than usual.

Long story short -- does this sound like the liquid motor mounts becoming frozen and un-frozen? What "liquid" is in there, and what does it take to freeze? I'm just curious because we had colder days last year and it never happened. Maybe I'll see what happens tomorrow...

Thanks for any thoughts!

--Ben

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:04 pm

I have not heard this complaint from a CRD owner but if you search the "general" forum you will find a history of this reported there.

bigugly · **Posted:** Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:04 am

I believe I had this same thing happen to me last winter. What I had happen is snow/slush freeze up in the rims that caused the wheels to be out of balance. only had it happen a couple of times but when I did I would take it to the car wash and spray everything out with nice hot water and the issue went away.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:46 am

It happened to me last night. I drove through slush on my way to work, parked in slush in the parking lot. During the night the temp dropped from 32 to -9. when I started it up in the morning to go home I could barley get it un stuck. Once I start out down the road it was really bouncing around and vibrating. I thought I had ripped something loose while getting it un stuck from the frozen slush. After I made it up to about 30 mph a couple of BIG chunks of ice broke away from something on the vehicle and everything smoothed right out.

ChesterCRD · **Posted:** Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:49 am

bewestro, if this happens again try putting it in neutral at idle and see if it still shakes. Mine does this every once in a while and I've found that taking the load off the engine at idle relieves the shaking. Of course it comes back when I put it back in drive, goes away once I'm moving, and generally doesn't do it once things warm up. I don't suspect mounts though, because it happens at Florida cold...around 40F.

dieseldawg · **Posted:** Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:22 pm

I have been having the same issue. Once I come to a stop, it feels like the engine is loaded and therefore making the whole vehicle have a shake to it. I've noticed with mine it happens at different times. On my way to work, there is bridge that is in a valley that has a pretty good slam on the suspension when entering and exiting the bridge. This gives the suspension a good all the way down travel, almost feels like it hits the stops. When I come to the stop sign, the rough idling is there, but then after some driving and another red light, it is gone. Today though, I came to a traffic light, where everything had been normal up to this point, and I could feel it starting to load the engine just as I was almost stopped. I then heard a loud metal to metal clunk, and the rough idle was gone and it didn't do it again. Any ideas on this one?

danoid · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:14 am

I had something similar happen to me after off roading. I thought I'd trashed the transfer case. The front differential was hard grounded against the front skid plate. I dropped the plate and power washed the dried clay - vibration gone. When I remounted the skid plate, I put some spacers in to lower the plate half an inch.

Could be your's got jammed up with ice. But the only way to test this is to crawl underneath with a power washer. Doesn't sound like fun to me either.

bewestro · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:19 pm

Thanks for all the replies,

This was definitely engine speed vibration that occurred whether stopped or not, in gear or not, most noticeable at or around idle. But... after that day, it went away, and has never happened again. I now think it was just slush that splashed up and then later froze, forming an ice mass somewhere that transferred vibrations more than ususal. In any case, it seems to be all better now.

However, this is definitely different than the problems some others on here are reporting. Dieseldawg, you may have torque converter issues? Any powertrain experts wanna help with this?

Merry Christmas everybody!
--Ben

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:29 pm

Here is one for all those who have gone through a whole winter in the cold, cold north. Lately when the temperature drops below 10* or so the suspension and steering has started really groaning and sounding like it is going to break. Is it just my Jeep or does anyone else's ride do it too?

danoid · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:04 am

nursecosmo wrote:

Here is one for all those who have gone through a whole winter in the cold, cold north. Lately when the temperature drops below 10* or so the suspension and steering has started really groaning and sounding like it is going to break. Is it just my Jeep or does anyone else's ride do it too?

Actually this could be the same thing...

NUMBER: 13-001-01
GROUP: Frame
DATE: Sep. 07, 2001
SUBJECT: Creak-Like Sound Coming From Front End Of Vehicle
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO AUG. 31, 2001 (MDH 0831XX).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The vehicle may exhibit a creak-like sound that originates from the front end of the vehicle. This creak-like sound may occur when the vehicle operator either applies the brakes at slow speeds, or when a slow speed turn is made (similar to what may occur during a parking lot maneuver). In a few instances the condition has been described as a pop-like sound. The technician may erroneously diagnose the cause of this condition as a brake or suspension component.

Yes, I know this TSB is for 2002 KJ's, but the symptoms are similar and the fix is???

DIAGNOSIS:
Determine if the left forward corner of the front skid plate has made contact with the front crossmember. Refer to the figure below for illustration of the possible contact area. If evidence of contact is present perform the Repair Procedure.

REPAIR PROCEDURE:
1. Loosen, but do not remove, the four skid plate attaching bolts.
2. Slide the front skid plate as far to the right (passenger side) of the vehicle as is possible. While holding the skid plate in place, tighten the four attaching bolts.
3. With the front skid plate repositioned to the right side, measure the clearance between the left forward corner of the front skid plate and the front crossmember (Fig. 1).
4. If a clearance of 3.1 mm (1/8 in.) or more is now present between the front skid plate and the front crossmember, tighten the front skid plate attaching bolts to 61 Nm (45 ft. lbs.). A new front skid plate is not required.
5. If the clearance between the front skid plate and front crossmember is less than 3.1 mm (1/8 in.), install a new front skid plate.
6. Position the new front skid plate to right side and tighten the front skid plate attaching bolts to 61 Nm (45 ft. lbs.).

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:58 pm

danoid; that is what it sounds like but there is no skid plate contact that I can see and the noise is totally temperature dependent. It seems to come from all of the bushings at the same time.

dieseldawg · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:51 pm

Hi guys,

Thanks bewestro for the thought on the torque converter. I am hoping it is not that, but that is definitely a possibility. I did a little playing today after your thought, and the RPMs react the same way whether I am stopping with or without the vibration seeming to be there. As I was driving it occured to me that it seems to happen after the rear suspension has been unloaded then reloaded. My thought is that the rear driveshaft is pulling back on the splines when unloaded, then when the vehicle weight comes back down on it, the splines are not letting it slide back up onto the shaft, therefore pushing the transmission and motor forward slightly putting the mounts at a non-normal position and transmitting more vibrations through the vehicle. When i got home this afternoon, i played with this theory on the driveway gutter bump. If i back out of the driveway quickly and let the jeep sort of "fall" out the driveway, I get the vibration. If i then put it in drive, and semi "slam" into the driveway, when I stop, the vibration is gone. That supports my load and unload theory. I've also noticed that the vibration is less significant if i make a more sudden stop where the rear of the vehicle comes up, but then makes a quick fall to the rest position. Does this make any sense or am I out of it? haha.

So....my thinking is that I could stand to lubricate the splines where the drive shaft goes onto the output of the transfer case. Any ideas as to what grease should be used. I recall someone stating that it is a very expensive grease. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance and I appreciate people thinking about this.

Craig

dieseldawg · **Posted:** Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:30 pm

Well guys,
I followed what I had though and pulled the driveshaft and greased both the male and female end of the driveshaft and transfer case. Put it all back together, it hasn't rattled or idled rough for the last 5 days. Its not a hard job, so if you think that could be your problem, give it a shot. Half hour job at the most. Just remember to mark the alignment of the shaft to the rear diff. so you can avoid any new vibration.

Frozen mounts?

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