LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Aero Turbine Mufflers

A K&N filter does nothing for a turbo powered car over stock filter for street usage, and this has been shown on dyno's with less then 1/4 hp increase on a stock VW 1.9 TDI (diesel) , however removing the muffler from your CRD will drop your EGT's and let the turbo spool up a little easier/faster. The problem with removing the muffler on our huge 4 cyl diesel is it would sound almost like a tractor, unless you put something like a glass pack straight through muffler.

If you chip you really need to put in larger injectors and that will bring EGT back in line unless you go too big.

I'm going to keep the stock air filter for the time being, again to see how much difference just the muffler makes.

retmil46 wrote:

I'm going to keep the stock air filter for the time being, again to see how much difference just the muffler makes.

The folks at the VW diesel forum pretty much proved a couple years ago you don't want to put anything like a K&N filter on a turbo diesel or turbo gas engine as the 1/6 to 1/10 hp gain was useless. The other thing they discovered by accident was when oil testing was done, the increase in silica (dirt) in the engine was enourmance and something like 300% to 500% increase.

Here is a link to filter testing done on a GM Duramax diesel you might want to read.

Keep us posted about the EGT gage install, and pictures if possiable. I could never figure out why they are not at least an option on a diesel car or truck, just doesn't make sense.

Well, I'm going to give one of these a try. Gentleman on the other list responded, he used a 2525 (2 1/2" inlet/outlet) without a resonator, said there was barely any discernable difference in sound, claimed his wife couldn't even tell the difference.

Before this, I'll look at having them install at least an EGT gauge, and possibly also a boost gauge. Would be nice to see just where this beast runs at before putting in the muffler, and also get some honest numbers on just how good a job it does.

I'm going to keep the stock air filter for the time being, again to see how much difference just the muffler makes.

Mitchell,

Just read your report on the Magnaflow thread. Good news. Will be interested in your mileage after a tank.

If you don't mind my asking, how much did your install cost? Trying to get a total number before I try to put this past the wife

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Aero Turbine Mufflers
Have any of you had any experience with Aero Turbine mufflers? A gent on another CRD list said that when he added an Aero Turbine muffler and a K&N air filter, he went from 22 to 24 MPG. I've checked out their website. If the claims about significantly reducing EGT's are true, this would seem to be a worthwhile mod even without any MPG improvement. If what TST Products reportedly said, that EGT's were running upwards of 1300 degrees at high power in stock form, is true, this beast could stand a little help cooling things off. This makes me a little hesitant about adding any performance modules without having some method of monitoring or controlling EGT's. I imagine that little variable vane turbo would be quite expensive to replace. IMHO, I'd do without the K&N filter, especially if I were operating in dusty conditions. I'd be more concerned about dusting my engine than anything else. The Aero Turbine website is www.aero-turbine.com .

Author:	Ranger1 [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:
TST didn't specifically say those high temps were with a stock setup. I assumed it meant with the TST tuner installed. I don't feel good about running any turbo at 1300F on WOT. TST also thought the egr was causing the high egt's. Man we need a way to electronically throttle back the egr valve on these CRD's. I Might have to get a pyrometer before I add any tuner.

Author:	SavageSS27 [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:
would these mufflers have any significant effect/use on a non-diesel engine, i checked out their site and it seems most intallations are on gas vehicles. Is it worth it instead of a Flowmaster 50 Series?

Author:	crdawg [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:
best thing i see is the small size ,if it give all the benefit it says it does.you could tuck it up out of the way and not have it hit skidplates or any thing like some of the bigger muffler

Author:	oldnavy [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:
A K&N filter does nothing for a turbo powered car over stock filter for street usage, and this has been shown on dyno's with less then 1/4 hp increase on a stock VW 1.9 TDI (diesel) , however removing the muffler from your CRD will drop your EGT's and let the turbo spool up a little easier/faster. The problem with removing the muffler on our huge 4 cyl diesel is it would sound almost like a tractor, unless you put something like a glass pack straight through muffler. If you chip you really need to put in larger injectors and that will bring EGT back in line unless you go too big.

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Author:	retmil46 [ Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:
oldnavy wrote: A K&N filter does nothing for a turbo powered car over stock filter for street usage, and this has been shown on dyno's with less then 1/4 hp increase on a stock VW 1.9 TDI (diesel) , however removing the muffler from your CRD will drop your EGT's and let the turbo spool up a little easier/faster. The problem with removing the muffler on our huge 4 cyl diesel is it would sound almost like a tractor, unless you put something like a glass pack straight through muffler. If you chip you really need to put in larger injectors and that will bring EGT back in line unless you go too big. You know, part of me would like to have it sound like a tractor. That way, when one of these kids with their brand new Mustangs is tailgating me, and I stomp on it, blowing a nice cloud of smoke in their face and leaving them sitting, there will be no doubt in their minds they just got blown off by an old man driving a "tractor"! Already had that happen twice. They backed off and showed that diesel a little respect when they eventually caught up with me.

Author:	oldnavy [ Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:
One of the perks of driving a diesel. Just did it last week to a couple of kids in a Japanese vehicle. Well time to run and fill up the Magnum as we are headed for a 400 mile road trip to Scott AFB for Christmas shopping tomorrow morning. For long trips Maggie is the only way to go.

Author:	retmil46 [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:24 am ]
Post subject:
Well, I'm going to give one of these a try. Gentleman on the other list responded, he used a 2525 (2 1/2" inlet/outlet) without a resonator, said there was barely any discernable difference in sound, claimed his wife couldn't even tell the difference. Before this, I'll look at having them install at least an EGT gauge, and possibly also a boost gauge. Would be nice to see just where this beast runs at before putting in the muffler, and also get some honest numbers on just how good a job it does. I'm going to keep the stock air filter for the time being, again to see how much difference just the muffler makes.

Author:	oldnavy [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:37 am ]
Post subject:
retmil46 wrote: I'm going to keep the stock air filter for the time being, again to see how much difference just the muffler makes. The folks at the VW diesel forum pretty much proved a couple years ago you don't want to put anything like a K&N filter on a turbo diesel or turbo gas engine as the 1/6 to 1/10 hp gain was useless. The other thing they discovered by accident was when oil testing was done, the increase in silica (dirt) in the engine was enourmance and something like 300% to 500% increase. Here is a link to filter testing done on a GM Duramax diesel you might want to read. Keep us posted about the EGT gage install, and pictures if possiable. I could never figure out why they are not at least an option on a diesel car or truck, just doesn't make sense.

Author:	LibertyCRD [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:57 am ]
Post subject:
Yeah just like it makes no sense why every vehicle made doesn't have a true oil pressure guage. I guess it saves the manufacturer a few pennies... Oh well. I cut the muffler off my CRD back in May and straight-piped it. Sounded AWFUL. But...maybe that's because I'm biased having been around Cummins-powered Dodge trucks for so long. I noticed an obvious difference in how fast the turbo would spool up. Throttle response was SWEET. I just couldn't live with the sound. Maybe I'll try it again though. I like the sound of lower EGTs.

Author:	dog_party [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:19 am ]
Post subject:
Well, I have no experience with the company, nor do I know anyone personally who has, but I will say that Aero Turbine seems to be a well-funded company. I would LOVE to have an EGT gauge and a boost gauge! Let us know what options you find. I can't think of the last turbo vehicle that had a turbo gauge in it from the factory. My old Thuderbird turbo coupe had a turbo light (came on when the turbo was active), that's as close to a stock turbo "gauge" as any of my turbo vehicles have come. Good info on the intake. I'll take the K&N off my Christmas list. I like the idea of tractoring out the Liberty too. Not sure my neighbors would care much for that when I'm idling at 0500 though.

Author:	retmil46 [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:56 am ]
Post subject:
oldnavy wrote: retmil46 wrote: I'm going to keep the stock air filter for the time being, again to see how much difference just the muffler makes. The folks at the VW diesel forum pretty much proved a couple years ago you don't want to put anything like a K&N filter on a turbo diesel or turbo gas engine as the 1/6 to 1/10 hp gain was useless. The other thing they discovered by accident was when oil testing was done, the increase in silica (dirt) in the engine was enourmance and something like 300% to 500% increase. Here is a link to filter testing done on a GM Duramax diesel you might want to read. Keep us posted about the EGT gage install, and pictures if possiable. I could never figure out why they are not at least an option on a diesel car or truck, just doesn't make sense. K&N wasn't even a consideration in my book, for exactly the reasons you mentioned, no measureable gains and poor filtration. Even if it did make a noticeable performance/mileage difference, the possibility of dusting and ruining my engine led me to rule out K&N filters on ANY of my vehicles a long time ago. I also subscribe to the Turbo Diesel Register for dodge Cummins trucks. In the catalog that come with their monthly printed magazine, they list only one reuseable filter that gives high air flow and still meets the manufacturer specs for filtration, confirmed by oil analysis as above. AFE ProGuard 7. It's the only filter they list besides the stock Fleetguard paper filter, because, as they say, it's the only one besides the stock filter that actually filters! They just released one that will fit the CRD, p/n 73-10072. I MAY give one a try to see if it works as advertised, but that's after the gauges and muffler.

Author:	oldnavy [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:
I have a friend that is looking into seeing if he can do us some group buys on Provent CCV filter, AFE ProGuard 7 air filter and the famous FUMOTO Oil Drain Valve. His name is Greg and he's an Amsoil Dealer and diesel gear head and his business name is Lubracation Specialist. Greg said he would check it out and get back with me as soon as he could, but it may take a day or two. I'm ordering a drain plug from MOPAR Supper Center and havinging it sent direct to him so as to get the correct thread size for the CRD. The valve will have a nipple on it to allow for a 3/8" plastic drain tube to used to route it to oil container and prevent any spillage on the ground and from getting it all over your hands. For those who haven't heard about the AFE ProGuard 7 air filter If any of you have any questions feel free to call him at his toll free number listed on his website. Hope this can make up for the Racor goof up on my part. No I don't use Amsoil and never have.

Author:	dog_party [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:
After reading all that, the K&N isn't an option for me on any engine either. I've never purchased one, but I have friends who put those things on before putting the first tank of fuel in their new vehicles. Amazing. I'm going to have to pass that info along. The Rancor thing wasn't a goof Oldnavy. You brought up an idea and we discussed it until we ruled it out as a valid option. That's what forums are for, eh? No goof. Besides, your original statement..."because of the filter life and change indicator telling when filter needs changing that offsets the cost differential."...is still true. Just wish it fit. Keep us posted on the Provent CCV filter group buy. I'll probably be in for two. Is Lubrication Specialist local to you in MO?

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Author:	oldnavy [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:
No, I'm in SE MO and he is just outside of Indy (IN) and that's about a 6 hr drive. He has been to my diesel GTG's (mainly VW's) here at the house and I have been to his house for injector work. The thing everyone here will love is the Fumoto drain valve and how clean an easy it makes an oil change.

Author:	Reggie [ Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:
retmil46 wrote: Well, I'm going to give one of these a try. Gentleman on the other list responded, he used a 2525 (2 1/2" inlet/outlet) without a resonator, said there was barely any discernable difference in sound, claimed his wife couldn't even tell the difference. Before this, I'll look at having them install at least an EGT gauge, and possibly also a boost gauge. Would be nice to see just where this beast runs at before putting in the muffler, and also get some honest numbers on just how good a job it does. I'm going to keep the stock air filter for the time being, again to see how much difference just the muffler makes. Westach makes a nice EGT/Boost combo gauge. You can buy them from Geno's Garage.

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:38 am ]
Post subject:
Well, went down to the performance shop today, showed them the AT and talked with them. 9 AM Saturday morning (tomorrow), taking it down to get it installed, and if time permits and they have one in stock, an EGT gauge. I showed them the instructions and they understand about the foot of straight pipe ahead of and behind the muffler. One thing occurred to me. If the gent on the other list got 2 mpg extra with basically an incorrect install (no straight pipe after the muffler), I wonder what it will do when installed correctly?

Author:	grywlfbg [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	AT install price
Mitchell, Just read your report on the Magnaflow thread. Good news. Will be interested in your mileage after a tank. If you don't mind my asking, how much did your install cost? Trying to get a total number before I try to put this past the wife

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: AT install price
grywlfbg wrote: Mitchell, Just read your report on the Magnaflow thread. Good news. Will be interested in your mileage after a tank. If you don't mind my asking, how much did your install cost? Trying to get a total number before I try to put this past the wife Well, the AT by itself is $192. The performance shop I went to charged me for 2 hours labor, at $60/hour. It actually took 3 hours, because the installers had never done a CRD and that type muffler before, but since I gave the guy a hand with the measuring and fabricating, plus they look to gain a dealership out of it, he just charged me for 2 hours. Might take less time, if i send photos of how mine is installed and measurements of the pipe lengths, that way it would pretty much be a cut and weld proposition. Measuring back from the cat, was able to get 13" of straight pipe ahead of the muffler and 12" after it. We reused the 2 bolt flange and the stock tailpipe aft of the original muffler.

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:
From what i read of oldnavy's report on his Flowmaster, anything that would give you higher flow would be an improvement over the stock POS muffler that DC put in it, not just an AT. Come on, what's the good of putting a 2 1/2" exhaust system in it if the muffler is necked down to 2" and full of restrictions? Went to the store and back a while ago, very light throttle to get that beast up and moving at a normal acceleration rate.