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Need Help,Ditch the CRD?. FIXED!!!!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44915		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  painemann [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Need Help,Ditch the CRD?. FIXED!!!!
My girlfriend was driving home from work today, and the CRD stalled on her at a red light. She put it in N, started it back up and drove to the nearest parking lot. I got to her as soon as I good and drove the jeep to the nearest part store that will scan codes. My cheaper scanner could not pull the code, and neither could the parts store. I drove it most of the way home without the stalling and as we neared home I stopped at a light and it stalled. I went home and looked under the hood and didn't see anything out the ordinary. I took it for a drive and it stalled on and off, and then after a stall it would start back up and then stall when I put in drive. Then I started it up again and it did it again. Started to assume it was the transmission and/or the TC until I left it in N and it still stalled.

My girlfriend put fuel in it this morning a few miles from work and it ran fine all the way to work. I of course asked her if she for sure put diesel it and not gas and she did put the right fuel in it. I have yet to replace the fuel filter and was thinking about doing it a few weeks ago but never got around to it. So without knowing what CEL it is has the only thing I can think of is either a bad/clogged filter or bad fuel.
I had just fixed the problem I has with the decoupler pulley going bad last week and now here we are again. I don’t mind spending a few dollars and working on my own cars, so I guess I underestimated the guys on here when they said that the CRD’s have issues. I just wish my OBDII scanner could read the darn codes because it’s not fun having to take the thing to get a code off it.
Well if it is fuel or filter related then fine but if it’s the jeep’s fault then I think I’m about done with it, I can’t have the thing be out of commission every few weeks. I took it a few hundred miles away on vacation a few months ago and I feel lucky now that I made it home! Thanks guys. [/list]
Author:  cerich [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
it is a diesel, if it isn't the tranny/tc causing the stall then it most likely is a fuel issue. Really believe me on this, diesels WANT to run, they don't like stopping, gas engines are begging to stop.
Author:  duke [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I doubt your wife put in gas, the car would only run a mile or 2 before it dies if gas was in there. Sounds like a fuel issue though, usually when diesels start and are running, not much will cause stalling, water in fuel perhaps, fuel filter (unlikely). What about EGR, this can cause same symptoms, correct? Experts out there?
Author:  kccrd [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
How many miles do you have on it? Have you looked at the connection where the fuel heater is just above the fuel filter. I replaced my filter head unit and put the new wiring connector for the heater plug and that solved all the air in fuel problems. It sounds like you are getting air in with the fuel. The heater connector should be completely dry.
Author:  painemann [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
duke wrote:
I doubt your wife put in gas, the car would only run a mile or 2 before it dies if gas was in there. Sounds like a fuel issue though, usually when diesels start and are running, not much will cause stalling, water in fuel perhaps, fuel filter (unlikely). What about EGR, this can cause same symptoms, correct? Experts out there?


I did do some searching, (I'm sick of it already) and found some info related to the EGR but nothing that give any solutions besides takeing it off and cleaning it. I did pull some codes of it a week or two ago related to the EGR (codes listed below along with link to topic). The Egr codes didn't really do anything noticeable, until now that is if it is EGR related.
When you guys say it is fuel related i understand that there isn't much that it will shut down for but I wish I could pull the code and find out what that said that would be a start.

I guess I'll pull the EGR and check it out, any idea what to look for? How the heck is the EGR related to stalling? What should I expect to see with a bad EGR? Just look to see if the valve is moving ?




P0101-MAF SENSOR SIGNAL NEGATIVE DEVIATION.
P0101-MAF SENSOR SIGNAL POSITIVE DEVIATION.
P0401-EGR SOLENOID CIRCUIT NEGATIVE DEVIATION.

=http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=44551
Author:  painemann [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
kccrd wrote:
How many miles do you have on it? Have you looked at the connection where the fuel heater is just above the fuel filter. I replaced my filter head unit and put the new wiring connector for the heater plug and that solved all the air in fuel problems. It sounds like you are getting air in with the fuel. The heater connector should be completely dry.


I have 81k miles on it, I did look around the fuel head assembly while I was priming and bleeding. I didn't notice any problems up there.

I called two Jeep Dealers and they both had the order the $115 filter.
Author:  geordi [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
If they are charging you $115 for a filter, RUN AWAY. The filter is about $40 normally, $30 if you can convince them to give you workshop rate. It is also available at any Napa store.

I'm STRONGLY leaning toward an air-in-fuel answer for you. Where are you located? If its anywhere near Savannah Georgia, I'd be happy to look at it with you.
Author:  painemann [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
geordi wrote:
If they are charging you $115 for a filter, RUN AWAY. The filter is about $40 normally, $30 if you can convince them to give you workshop rate. It is also available at any Napa store.

I'm STRONGLY leaning toward an air-in-fuel answer for you. Where are you located? If its anywhere near Savannah Georgia, I'd be happy to look at it with you.


When I bled it I didn't see much air, maybe a bubble or two but its hard to tell if it wasn't just from the hose to bleeder connection. I wish I knew someone like you near me so I at least had someone to cuss at the jeep with me. I am in Michigan, but I did fly down to Georgia to buy the Jeep... wish I didn't now! Thanks for the offer.

Well I just went out and started it and it started and idled fine, I loosened the sensor on the bottom of the filter and drained some fuel into a bottle and it didn't look like there was any water in there with the fuel. I started it up and took it for a ride down the highway and ran it hard to maybe clean it out and it ran good and stayed running in the four stops I made when i drove it. Got back into the driveway, put it in drive and turned the A/C on and it died again. The extra work from the ac seemed to put it over the edge and kill it. I guess the only way to know its not the fuel is to change the filter and drain the 19gallons of fuel that was put in it today.
Author:  Pablo [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need Help, I'm about to SELL the CRD. It is Stalling !!
painemann wrote:
My girlfriend put fuel in it this morning a few miles from work and it ran fine all the way to work. I of course asked her if she for sure put diesel it and not gas and she did put the right fuel in it. I have yet to replace the fuel filter and was thinking about doing it a few weeks ago but never got around to it. So without knowing what CEL it is has the only thing I can think of is either a bad/clogged filter or bad fuel.
[/list]


You have never replaced the fuel filter on an 05? Well, I would start there. Those are supposed to be replaced frequently. Mine gets done every 20,000 miles. Napa can order one for you-- for around $30-35 bucks. I think the stock Mopar one is $40ish...

What you are describing happens when the fuel filter is plugged. I have plugged up a few with bad bio.
Author:  painemann [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need Help, I'm about to SELL the CRD. It is Stalling !!
Pablo wrote:
painemann wrote:
My girlfriend put fuel in it this morning a few miles from work and it ran fine all the way to work. I of course asked her if she for sure put diesel it and not gas and she did put the right fuel in it. I have yet to replace the fuel filter and was thinking about doing it a few weeks ago but never got around to it. So without knowing what CEL it is has the only thing I can think of is either a bad/clogged filter or bad fuel.
[/list]


You have never replaced the fuel filter on an 05? Well, I would start there. Those are supposed to be replaced frequently. Mine gets done every 20,000 miles. Napa can order one for you-- for around $30-35 bucks. I think the stock Mopar one is $40ish...

What you are describing happens when the fuel filter is plugged. I have plugged up a few with bad bio.


Thanks for the info, I didn't call Napa because after talking to Advanced Auto and them saying the computer just says Not Available I figured dealer only. Dealer said $150, I asked them if were talking about the right filter, not the filter assembly or the filter with the sensor.. He continued to say "this is the only way Chrysler Sells them".

I have put 15-18k miles on the jeep since I bought it, and I'm not sure when the filter was replaced by the last owner. So yeah a filter change was in the back of my head, I just didn't get around to it yet. If its just a filter then Good, I'll call Napa in the morning. Thanks again.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need Help, I'm about to SELL the CRD. It is Stalling !!
painemann wrote:
I have yet to replace the fuel filter and was thinking about doing it a few weeks ago but never got around to it.


Later you stated you have 81K on it so the fuel filter change is way overdue. Should be done every 25K so I would do that before anything. A clogged restricted is very bad for a diesel.

Sorry I didn't see Pablo answer before I posted this. Doh'

I also carry a spare filter with me on long trips just in case.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:26 am ]
Post subject: 
If napa has to order it, there is an alternative that you can try for a brief period. Purolator sells small paper-in-plastic filters (IIRC, model 11011) which look like large versions of a lawnmower type filter. This won't filter anything but debris, but for a day or two just to get you moving again, it will work. Just unplug the two lines from the filter housing and connect them to the purolator. The line closest to the center line of the truck is the engine side (filter outlet).

Another way I use these is as a pre-filter for the main filter. Because they are semi-clear, you can see if there is a lot of bubbles in your line, which will tell you if you have an air leak before the filter housing. They also function as a nice "early warning system" for your main filter - When they get full, the media compresses toward the outlet side, and the truck will behave like it is for you now. This tells you that it is filter time, BUT you can remove the cheap one, and STILL have quality filtration while you order and wait for a new good one.

Good luck with it.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:01 am ]
Post subject: 
painemann wrote:
I have 81k miles on it, I did look around the fuel head assembly while I was priming and bleeding. I didn't notice any problems up there.

I called two Jeep Dealers and they both had the order the $115 filter.


The parts diagram has a fuel filter and a fuel filter water/separator - one should be the filter only at ~$40 and the other is the entire head with filter and it's about $100

so they're ordering the entire unit - that might not be bad if they got the new style (better heater plug that doesn't leak)
but they'll need to order the plug to connect the heater.
Author:  painemann [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:40 am ]
Post subject: 
geordi wrote:
If napa has to order it, there is an alternative that you can try for a brief period. Purolator sells small paper-in-plastic filters (IIRC, model 11011) which look like large versions of a lawnmower type filter. This won't filter anything but debris, but for a day or two just to get you moving again, it will work. Just unplug the two lines from the filter housing and connect them to the purolator. The line closest to the center line of the truck is the engine side (filter outlet).

Another way I use these is as a pre-filter for the main filter. Because they are semi-clear, you can see if there is a lot of bubbles in your line, which will tell you if you have an air leak before the filter housing. They also function as a nice "early warning system" for your main filter - When they get full, the media compresses toward the outlet side, and the truck will behave like it is for you now. This tells you that it is filter time, BUT you can remove the cheap one, and STILL have quality filtration while you order and wait for a new good one.

Thanks for the info on the temp filter, after I call a few napa stores, if they all have to order the normal filter then I'll start looking for the temp one!

I feel a little better that you guys are saying that it just sounds like the fuel filter.

Good luck with it.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Definitely it is time for a new filter whether that is currently your problem or not. I would lay money that that is your problem. If you want to take the EGR valve out of contention for the cause of the stalling, just unplug the MAF sensor on your airbox. This effectively deactivates your EGR, so if you still have stalling, you know that it's not the EGR.
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:38 am ]
Post subject: 
You can order the Mopar version of the oil filters off of Ebay for the $30 to $35 range. NAPA does have a filter for the CRD (made in China) and they can usually get one in to you within a day or two. My brother had my CRD for about month down in KY and O'Reilly autoparts was able order a filter for it. Since you're in MI like me, you might be able to buy one from Murray's Autoparts since O'Reilly's recently bought them and expanded their selection of parts. Mopar Parts America (online wholesaler) will also sell you the filter alone for less than $40. It seems that your dealer may be on the clueless side of things.
Author:  painemann [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 
kdlewis1975 wrote:
You can order the Mopar version of the oil filters off of Ebay for the $30 to $35 range. NAPA does have a filter for the CRD (made in China) and they can usually get one in to you within a day or two. My brother had my CRD for about month down in KY and O'Reilly autoparts was able order a filter for it. Since you're in MI like me, you might be able to buy one from Murray's Autoparts since O'Reilly's recently bought them and expanded their selection of parts. Mopar Parts America (online wholesaler) will also sell you the filter alone for less than $40. It seems that your dealer may be on the clueless side of things.


Thanks for the info man, I just got back from NAPA and yeah I was a little ticked off that it was made in china. But at least I will know if thats the problem or not and the next one will be a mopar filter or maybe even the CAT filter upgrade.

I'm going to to change it right now, I'll let you know what happens.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject: 
painemann wrote:
kdlewis1975 wrote:
You can order the Mopar version of the oil filters off of Ebay for the $30 to $35 range. NAPA does have a filter for the CRD (made in China) and they can usually get one in to you within a day or two. My brother had my CRD for about month down in KY and O'Reilly autoparts was able order a filter for it. Since you're in MI like me, you might be able to buy one from Murray's Autoparts since O'Reilly's recently bought them and expanded their selection of parts. Mopar Parts America (online wholesaler) will also sell you the filter alone for less than $40. It seems that your dealer may be on the clueless side of things.


Thanks for the info man, I just got back from NAPA and yeah I was a little ticked off that it was made in china. But at least I will know if thats the problem or not and the next one will be a mopar filter or maybe even the CAT filter upgrade.

I'm going to to change it right now, I'll let you know what happens.


Make sure you get both the rubber seals from the old filter off before putting the new one on :shock:
Author:  painemann [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
so far so good, went up to the hardware store and back. Stopped a few times and used the AC the whole time. It only took about 15min and would have been faster if the darn thing was so tight.. I could see the heater puck moving as I was trying to loosen the filter.

Thanks for all your help with my stupid problem, I have a few things to do today and will most likely add up to around 100miles. We will see!

Thanks
Author:  painemann [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok I spoke too soon, as I was typing my last reply I left the jeep running with the ac on. It idled fine for about 20min and I got in it and put in it drive and it shut down again. I bled the fuel filter again and I got a little air but it didn't help. Man this is not fun, I don't even want my girlfriend driving the darn thing anymore. I have only had it a year and put about 20k miles on it, haven't had any problems up until these last 3-4 months.

Here is a list of crap that has happened within 4 months.

-ABS sensor went bad -(bad wire right at the rear diff speed sensor close to the connection so I had cut a connector off an old wiring harness I had) FIXED

-Transmission went south wouldn't shift- couldn't find anyone who knew anything about the thing, after going to 6 different shops I found a guy who kept it and wanted to try to fix it, he played with wiring and he got it to work fine but he was unsure of what he did. FIXED -for how long, I'm not sure.

-EGR CEL light came on- Pulled codes, unplugged the MAF, still unsure what is wrong with it. have not pulled the EGR yet.

-Now this- Have a CEL that multiple OBDII scanners cannot read, It is stalling and I don't know why.... NOT FUN, NOT FIXED!


Here is a video I took with my phone so you guys can see whats going on. ... Thanks!

I think I'm about done with this thing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfra8AzQB8
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