The only and I mean ONLY advantage of a timing belt is for reduced noise
and vibration.
Seems kinda pointless on a diesel.
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| Timing belt replacement intervals. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45094 |
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| Author: | e_poirier2004 [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Timing belt replacement intervals. |
Interesting question for the experienced guys. I know this issue has been addressed but not satisfactory to my liking. When it comes to timing belt replacement, the owner's manual in America says 100 000 miles (160 000km) but in Europe, the same engine is suggesting 100 000 km (60 000km). I presently have 80 000km on my canadian KJ and was wondering if I should change the timing belt at 100 000km or at 160 000km. With my previous cars, there were 2 sets of intervals, severe driving and normal driving. In Quebec, due to the weather conditions (+30 deg C to -30 deg C), we're always in severe driving condition which is always shortening the intervals. Usually, a good rule of thumbs is to change all the fluids and transmission filter every 50 000km and the belts every 100 000km. I did that on my previous civic and it lasted 278 000km before I sold it to a guy in Ontario where they have emisson and safety checks every 2 years. It passed all the tests without any problems. When should I change the timing belt? |
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| Author: | gmctd [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Need to distinguish between yer kilo meters and yer kilo miles - they both cain't be "km's" - gots lotsa rednecks on here that ain't never heerd of kilometers (or kmiles) and have no idea of the 0.625 or 1.666 conversion, eh............ Depends on how much oil has been spilled down the front of the engine over the period of oil change times, or\and how much oil the li'l 4-banger is weeping and exuding amongst the frontal area - oil ain't nice to rubber - (+), the roads are much better here, so the Euro KJ may have been subjected to much adverse conditions by 60kmi (100km) - that would include deep cold for more than several months per year - depending on your location up there in the great white North, the 100km interval may be your best choice |
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| Author: | MrMopar64 [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The owner's manual for the Euro version is wrong. Regardless of the market, the engine is good for 100 000 miles (160 000 kilometer). |
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| Author: | vegiH [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
just did mine @ 90,000 miles and it looked pretty beat-up. |
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| Author: | forensic [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Did you do yourself or dealer? Cost? Degree of difficulty? I just bought special tools and its coming up in 10K. |
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| Author: | vegiH [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
did it when the head was off for a broken glow plug(see my threads on glowplugs,and oil in turbo now what?).Had a local heavy truck shop do it.Hard to tell cost of labor as we were already in there,but the belt it self was $179.If I did it again i would do the same, timing belt,headgasket,and glowplug all at once to share time and money expenses.Remember they changed the type of glowplugs for a reason (they break off in the head quite often),and this will give you a BIG migrane if it happens to you.My belt had oil exposure which will fray the edges and soften rubber thus "adjusting the timing".I would go to a diesel specialist before going back to the dealer for this as generally they don't have alot of "trained" crd techs...........good luck and feel free to ask Q's on incurred costs in PM form.......PS check the clutch fan while it is apart as it is a pain to deal with when everything is together(05s are more tendent)............H |
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ceramic glow plugs? |
vegiH wrote: did it when the head was off for a broken glow plug(see my threads on glowplugs,and oil in turbo now what?).Had a local heavy truck shop do it.Hard to tell cost of labor as we were already in there,but the belt it self was $179.If I did it again i would do the same, timing belt,headgasket,and glowplug all at once to share time and money expenses.Remember they changed the type of glowplugs for a reason (they break off in the head quite often),and this will give you a BIG migrane if it happens to you.My belt had oil exposure which will fray the edges and soften rubber thus "adjusting the timing".I would go to a diesel specialist before going back to the dealer for this as generally they don't have alot of "trained" crd techs...........good luck and feel free to ask Q's on incurred costs in PM form.......PS check the clutch fan while it is apart as it is a pain to deal with when everything is together(05s are more tendent)............H
My sticker says Ceramic Glow Plugs, good or bad? |
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| Author: | ATXKJ [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mine said Ceramic. after 6 glow plugs in 6 months (all cylinder #2) and a glow plug module - Star told the dealership to change out all 4 - they broke one - pulled the head, changed the timing belt and all 4 glow plugs. this was all ~70,000 miles I paid for the belt and the deductible on the 1st plug. - of course since I've gotten it back it's been 90-100+ so I won't know if it's really fixed until it gets cold. |
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| Author: | 805gregg [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Replace a timing belt at 100,000 is pure BS on a diesel, how about gears or at least a chain. |
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| Author: | dirtmover [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
805gregg wrote: Replace a timing belt at 100,000 is pure BS on a diesel, how about gears or at least a chain.
Contrary to popular belief, timing belts have significant advantages over chains and are a superior product despite their replacement requirements. |
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| Author: | nursecosmo [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
dirtmover wrote: Contrary to popular belief, timing belts have significant advantages over chains and are a superior product despite their replacement requirements.
Advantages like what? |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The only and I mean ONLY advantage of a timing belt is for reduced noise and vibration. Seems kinda pointless on a diesel.
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| Author: | onthehunt [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:07 am ] |
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DOHC engines pretty much require a belt. Nothing wrong with a belt if it's maintained. |
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| Author: | vegiH [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
They ALL are ceramic,but the new ones have an alloy with a type of steel(long name can't remember),this is so when the plug snaps they can drill it out and use a magnet and extract all pieces without taking head off.I guess they got sick of paying up the wazoo for a $37 dollar part to be replaced....On the chain vs belt issue,would you rather have a trashed motor if the chain were to break a link,or just some rubber scraps and a little clean up?I have been told that the higher revving the diesel the more reason for belt over chain(shop owner with 35years diesel experiance). |
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| Author: | bugnout [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Good info, So when I get this service I should also plan Replace Timing Belt Replace Fan Clutch Replace Serpentine belt Replace 4 glow plugs - get the alloyed ceramic ones New head gasket - (I guess only needed if they break off a GP in the head while they are changing them, if its not leaking leave it?) Any other service you would recommend while they got it all apart? |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
vegiH wrote: I have been told that the higher revving the diesel the more reason for belt over chain(shop owner with 35years diesel experiance).
Well, I guess that makes sense then. Higher RPM's mean more chain vibration/harmonics which can slightly retard the camshaft timing. This is why some drag racers use timing belts. You can get a belt drive for your Pro Street SB Chevy. Doesn't even need a timing cover. Easy swap outs. 
But still, with a 3500 max RPM, chain vibrations should not be excessive enough to mess up timing. (even though it is a long path) I believe the latest VM 2.8 uses chains. Lots of DOHC engines use chains. All the way from my wife's 2.0L Caliber to a 4.6L Mustang Cobra V8. In fact, most mnfr's are switching back to chains. Probably due to maintenance requirements. Its hard to push 100K warranty when wearable items need to be replaced at 60K. Most people would rather trade in their car then pay for t-belt job. |
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| Author: | MrMopar64 [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The torsional vibrations on a four-cylinder engine, especially a diesel, eliminates the possibility of using a chain. Not only for NVH improvement, but the torsionals will cause lost of disturbance on the slack side of the chain, which could prematurely wear links, pins, and lead to lots of slapping issues. The belt acts as much more of a damper in this situation and prevents these torsionals from affecting the valvetrain in a negative manner. The only diesels I know of that are OHC and use chains are the V6's, and this is made possible because the torsional irregularities during the combustion phase are orders of magnitude less. |
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| Author: | vegiH [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
replace glow plug relay $20-+,and I replaced the injector o-rings which gave me a free look at the injectors after 40K on WVO,and they were super nice  ,which is a good thing for the piece of mind of wvo (i only put 10K on it with wvo, the other was previous owner now serving in Iraq).Just remember there are three different headgaskets(different thickness) your VIN and/or engine code will be needed when ordering.I know this seem like alot of work extra,but you save on the labor end and don't have to tear into that engine for another 100K for maintance .It could be alot worse as I re[placed my turbo at the same time.........ouch.Just remember that engine only takes 6.4 quarts,and you will save any turbo worries.........................H
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| Author: | 05infernoCRDL [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
MrMopar64 wrote: The torsional vibrations on a four-cylinder engine, especially a diesel, eliminates the possibility of using a chain. Not only for NVH improvement, but the torsionals will cause lost of disturbance on the slack side of the chain, which could prematurely wear links, pins, and lead to lots of slapping issues. The belt acts as much more of a damper in this situation and prevents these torsionals from affecting the valvetrain in a negative manner.
The only diesels I know of that are OHC and use chains are the V6's, and this is made possible because the torsional irregularities during the combustion phase are orders of magnitude less. mercedes 5cyl turbo dieseld are OHV and have a chain.. and i think the 4 cyls are too |
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mercedes uses fancy tricks..... |
05infernoCRDL wrote: MrMopar64 wrote: The torsional vibrations on a four-cylinder engine, especially a diesel, eliminates the possibility of using a chain. Not only for NVH improvement, but the torsionals will cause lost of disturbance on the slack side of the chain, which could prematurely wear links, pins, and lead to lots of slapping issues. The belt acts as much more of a damper in this situation and prevents these torsionals from affecting the valvetrain in a negative manner. The only diesels I know of that are OHC and use chains are the V6's, and this is made possible because the torsional irregularities during the combustion phase are orders of magnitude less. mercedes 5cyl turbo dieseld are OHV and have a chain.. and i think the 4 cyls are too ...... like curved guide rails to cancel out the the vibrations and harmonics along with a hydraulic tensioner. BMW also uses their fancy tricks, but fancy tricks cost money and add to the cost. Years ago a company (sorry I can't remember who) used bevel gears and a drive shaft to the overhead cam. Another Idea that is still on the far back burner is piezoelectric pilot actuated high pressure hydraulics to open and close the valves, this would allow variable valve overlap that could be controlled by the ECM for optimum performance and reduced emissions. Somehow I think we will have cybernetic interfacing that will allow paralyzed people to walk and play sports before piezoelectric pilot actuated high pressure hydraulics open the valves on our future engines. Now, if I had a remote control that had a HAPPY button I could aim at my wife and make her VERY HAPPY 
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