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Missing or what seems to be starving for fuel.... Any ideas?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45571		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  baddabing [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Missing or what seems to be starving for fuel.... Any ideas?
On occasion the little Jeep will starv for fuel or what seems like the engine missing / runs rough. It usually does this when your at a stop and are starting to accelerate. Most of the time it runs fine....it seems strange that it wouldn't do it all the time if it was a fuel deilvery problem? I changed the fuel filter less than 3000 miles ago. Any ideas on where I should start with this?

Thanks!!!!
Matt
Author:  tonycrd [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Original fuel filter head? Look at the fuel heater connector (the one on the right), maybe there is a leak there.
Author:  baddabing [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Tony,

It is the original filter head. I will have a look there and see if anything looks suspicious. I used a WIX fuel filter on the last filter change, I am not sure if that has something to do with it? The WIX filter looks identical to the orignal Mopar filter....I can't see it being that?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 
I've used the WIX/NAPA fuel filter with no problems other then it's made in China :shock:
Author:  ribbon [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
everything is made in china. I'm sure the media in the OEM ones are too even though the housing for it says another country.
Author:  bugnout [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do you have a lift pump?

Most people around LOST starting having issues right after a filter change. Lots of reasons, Fuel head seals, air in the fuel, air leaks, you name it. All can be corrected and eventually after weeks of bleeding the head, plugging the leaks, repriming, its possible to get it back to normal, but the quickest fix is to install a lift pump. All the other small issues become non-issues.

Lack of a lift pump means that the first stage of the injection pump has to pull the fuel through the filter from the tank, works fine when brand new, but over time, any weak link means hard starting.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
bugnout wrote:
Lack of a lift pump means that the first stage of the injection pump has to pull the fuel through the filter from the tank, works fine when brand new, but over time, any weak link means hard starting.


Some, including mine, didn't even work right brand new :cry: Of course the dealer could never duplicate the problem and it was quicker to put in a lift pump then continually wasting my time trying to get the dealer to actually look for a problem :cry:

I'm probably out of touch with reality but you shouldn't have to deal with these types of problems when you buy a new car :?
Author:  linewarbr [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've changed my fuel filter twice and never had a problem, both times I bought it at NAPA which is made by Wix. Did you make sure the old o-ring on the threaded part came off? I read a post of another member who had gotten theirs changed, only to find that whoever did the install left the old filter's O-ring on, which led to air in the fuel.
Author:  baddabing [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks very much for the replys!

I don't have a lift pump installed. I use to own a 01 Dodge Cummins diesel. It had lift pump issues and when I read that guys were having potential problems with getting fuel to the injection pump.....I was about to scream!!! So I ask....what is the average cost of one? How long does it tak to put in?

I wish it was the rubber o-ring...I remember pulling the old one off, it was stuck to the filter head. Too bad it wasn't something simple like that :roll:
Author:  Joe Romas [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:04 am ]
Post subject: 
baddabing wrote:
I wish it was the rubber o-ring...I remember pulling the old one off, it was stuck to the filter head. Too bad it wasn't something simple like that :roll:


Well it just might be a rubber "O" ring but on one of the plastic disconnects back near the tank instead of the at the filter :? While putting the intank pump on my 06 I discovered how little presure it took to connect the fittings. Early in the life of the CRD's some dealers actually recognized and fixed the air in fuel problem by replacing the fuel lines to the rear :wink:

To put a intank pump on you need to drop the tank, remove the original metal float arm and install it on the new pump. Then carefully snip off half of the locating tab that's in a different place on the new pump so it will orientate properly. You'll need a total of three pins, two for connecting to the pump and one for the connector under the back seat. You need to move the left rear seat so you can get to the plug underneath the carpet. Under the seat insert one connector pin in the connector and attatch the ground wire to the nearby bolt. You can fish/work these two wires through the harness without removing it. The controling circuit, relay and fuse along with wiring to the underside of the back seat are already there waiting :wink:

If your good it's only about two hours. The hardest part for me was getting the back seat out. You also want the fuel level to be down low. I have a hitch installed that covers the 2 rear hanger bolts and found it only necessary to remove the front bolts on the 2 straps then moved them out of the way.

I did mine in 2 steps over two days. Step one put in the wiring and leave then coiled up under the jeep. Next day I dropped the tank and put the pump in. Several have found the original big green "O" ring can be compressed better then the new one that comes with the pump.

There are install threads in the Tech section. Getting the three pins is the first order of business. As I recall there is not a direct harness available so you'll need to solder and tape/heat shrink them well.

Pump was around $150 with shipping on line
Author:  msilbernagel [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I tried to get some decent pictures when I put the dodge fuel pump/pickup into my tank:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/564169125RQujue

This will give you some idea of how things look...

As the previous post mentions - it's a few hour job if you have the materials in hand.

Perhaps a little more if you're a plodder... ; ' ) but not much!

Mark
Author:  baddabing [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:39 am ]
Post subject: 
On Turbo diesel register for the Dodge Cummins, all most everyone suggests to install a lift pump on the frame and not in the tank. The dealer recommends installing it in the tank but just about everyone says "don't install it in the tank" install it on the frame....which I did. It makes it real simple to change if the lift pump fails. The truck comes from the factory with the lift pump on the motor.....prone to heat and vibration and a long way to draw the fuel from the tank!
Author:  nursecosmo [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:50 am ]
Post subject: 
I installed a lift pump on the frame rail under the back seat. It makes for a much easier install and is much easier to replace if it fails. It is a duramax pump and cost about 60 bucks. The only disadvantage to having one on the rail, is that it still sucks the fuel a short distance, but that has never been a problem for me.
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I finally accomplished the same thing last weekend...installed a Mr. Gasket 12D pump on the rail in front of the tank. I had been getting a fair amount of air in the filter from some time. This unfortunately didn't go as well as planned. I guess in my efforts to get rubber hose on the nylon hoses coming from the tank, I tweaked them enough to cause a massive leak at the fitting. So...I ended up, as GMCTD recommended doing before in another thread...dropping the tank and replacing those with rubber hoses. My goals was for the cheaper simpler route. I accomplished cheaper, but simple went out the window. I had a good amount of air in the fuel system and it took a while to get it purged and the engine to run smoothly. It took a couple days for the CEL to go off.

I do however, still have an issue. At start-up, mine has this surging thing it does on take-off. Hold the go-pedal in one spot and it will basically do a slow lope between 1400 and 1700 rpm. I don't observe this when the engine is warm, though it does seem a tiny bit hesitant on takeoff when you first push the go-pedal.

So I'm wondering:

Transmission thing...because the fluid is cold. I don't think the anti-drain back valve on the filter is working now since the Jeep is reluctant to move when first put in gear and then nearly stalls the engine once the TC gets filled. I did check the fluid level and that was okay. The fluid is a nice light red color, so it superficially looks good.

EGR valve...I'm still on the original. I have a disassembled SEGR that would solve some its issues. I'm thinking that maybe the valve is a little sticky and it's moving really slowly messing with off idle power/acceleration a little bit. Once everything reaches operating temperature, it's less sticky and works normally. This is conjecture; it seems that many people just get the ones that just stop working instead of flirting with the idea of stopping to work. I figure I might unplug the MAF to see how it responds.

Vacuum reservoir...some people have had problems with it not holding vacuum, so from a cold start is lacking until the engine vacuum pump is spinning enough to outrun the leak. I'll have to check the hoses to make sure there aren't cracks.

baddabing...sharing this since we could have some overlap in issues.
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sound to me like your EGR valve is sticky and isn't closing fast enough during a drive-away condition.

The vacuum pump is gear-driven off the crank and it'll evacuate the system very quickly. if you don't have an issue with brake assist when you start the car and put your foot on the brake, then you don't have a problem with the vacuum system.
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
MrMopar64 wrote:
Sound to me like your EGR valve is sticky and isn't closing fast enough during a drive-away condition.

The vacuum pump is gear-driven off the crank and it'll evacuate the system very quickly. if you don't have an issue with brake assist when you start the car and put your foot on the brake, then you don't have a problem with the vacuum system.


Thanks for the input. I figured it was EGR related. I bought a new one sometime ago anticipating it would a problem at some point.
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