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Anyone using amsoil 5W30 heavy duty diesel oil?
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Author:  e_poirier2004 [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Anyone using amsoil 5W30 heavy duty diesel oil?
I just got recommended amsoil 5w30 by an amsoil retailer who seems to know his business very well. I was wondering if any of you ever tried it or any other amsoil products and how it performs. Is it true you can leave it for 30000km?
Author:  MACKJ [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone using amsoil 5W30 heavy duty diesel oil?
I have been running it for three years, no problems. I replace after one year max, approx 15,000 kms.
Author:  e_poirier2004 [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Which filter are you using? The one listed for the KJ or an oversize filter?
Author:  MACKJ [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
e_poirier2004 wrote:
Which filter are you using? The one listed for the KJ or an oversize filter?

Amsoil EAO 34
Cheers
Author:  CRDMiller [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Why would you put a 30 weight oil in a application that specifies a 40 weight?
Author:  Glend [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:48 am ]
Post subject: 
That's not unusual. Jeep service guys down here have a spec sheet that says they should put 5W30 in the KJ CRDs. It appears that Jeep have spec'd the new JK Wrangler CRDs for 5W30, in fact all the latest CRDs including the Grand are now getting 5W30 put in by the dealers. I simply supply my own oil that meets the original specs. I suspect it has something to do with the Enviro oil movement - you know, put in a low viscosity oil to increase fuel economy (just forget about longevity of the engine!).
Author:  warp2diesel [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  What they did to use thinner oil
Glend wrote:
That's not unusual. Jeep service guys down here have a spec sheet that says they should put 5W30 in the KJ CRDs. It appears that Jeep have spec'd the new JK Wrangler CRDs for 5W30, in fact all the latest CRDs including the Grand are now getting 5W30 put in by the dealers. I simply supply my own oil that meets the original specs. I suspect it has something to do with the Enviro oil movement - you know, put in a low viscosity oil to increase fuel economy (just forget about longevity of the engine!).


To use the thinner oil the bearing clearances are tightened up and the polishing of the crank journals is better. In the old days when you could file your nails on a crank journals (yup I have seen grind jobs that bad) the oil had to be thick and the clearances greater to handle the thicker oil. Since the technology is there, we all should put it to use. if you use an oil too thick it create more friction and will quickly heat up until it thins out to the viscosity the engine is designed to handle. just a pesky Law of Physics.

With gear boxes in general, the slower they go the thicker the oil has to be to hang onto the surfaces and slop around to lubricate the bearings and other gears. Some very slow running industrial gear boxes us oil that is the same as what steam engines used in their hay day. If you pump the oil like in an automatic transmission does you can use thinner oil. As a general rule the big slow gear boxes have a coarser finish on the gear teeth than smaller high speed gear boxes.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:53 am ]
Post subject: 
I find it interesting that the 05 FSM specifies oil grades based on country of destination. Does the engine know what country its in? Does VM Motori change bearing clearances and oil pump design on CRD's sold to Chrysler based on their intended country of sale? I wouldn't think so.

For example:

US requirements are 0W-40 or 5W-40 SAE CF and even goes so far as to specify Mobil oil! I wonder if that will change to a new vendor now that Chrysler uses someone besides Mobil for their factory fill.

Europe - 5W-40 API CD or better, if temps are consistently below 5*F (-15C) or 10W-40 ACEA B3/B4 otherwise. Then they say European 10W-40 oils are also acceptable.

From 0W-40 to 10W-40. Quite a range

I've run Mobil 5W-40 TDT since the first oil change, but I switched to Amsoil 10W-40 CI4+ with the heavier (than CJ4) Zinc add pack. Engine runs slightly quieter with it, far less blowby. Fuel economy has remain unchanged. The HTHS spec is much better due to the higher viscosity, with a 4.3 instead of a 3.6 or 3.8 range.
Author:  Glend [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, my Australian delivered 07KJ CRD is spec'd for 10W-40 in the owners manual, but was delivered with Mobil 1 (0W-40) in it. My build date was late April 07, so I doubt any US KJ CRD would have bearing tolerances machined any finer than the VM engine that I have, they may be machining them finer in the new JK Wrangler CRDs running the VM engine but from what I can tell of my son's Wrangler CRD the changes to the engine are mainly in the injector system. The bottom end of that engine has remained the same for years. Now the 3Liter CRD engine offered here in the Grand Cherokee and the Chrysler 300 is a Mercedes sourced engine and could very well be spec'd for the thinner oil. I think its just lazy service practices, "use the oil that meets most of the specs for most of what we service" and its bought in bulk.
Author:  CRD Joe [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I use Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel oil in all my diesel trucks. I used it once in my KJ but an Amsoil buy told me to start using the 40 weight European Diesel oil so that's what I changed over to next.

Id like to get more clearer information as to what's truly best to use, 30 weight or 40 weight.

Thanks.
Author:  Cowpie1 [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I know of one trucking company that is using the Amsoil HDD 5w30 in their entire fleet. Seems to work ok. I was on Amsoil until I discovered Schaeffer. Just couldn't justify the cost (even preferred pricing) compared to Schaeffer. And I get all my oil now delivered free to my front door complete with prepaid oil sample kits with free postage. Now if Amsoil could sell me a full synthetic at around $17 a gallon complete with oil sample kits and free shipping to my door, I might reconsider. I do 10K oil changes in my CRD (lots of gravel road running and off road on the farm) and 30K oil changes in my semi. Oil samples support this and actually could go a little longer.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Oil perspective
CRD Joe wrote:
I use Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel oil in all my diesel trucks. I used it once in my KJ but an Amsoil buy told me to start using the 40 weight European Diesel oil so that's what I changed over to next.

Id like to get more clearer information as to what's truly best to use, 30 weight or 40 weight.

Thanks.


I suspect why Chrysler speced 0W-40 is do to the more extreme temperatures from the southern US border to the Northwest Territory of Canada and have a one size that fits all.
I will be honest, this is more Salesmanship than Engineering and Sales pulls this all the time to sell more (remember the 10K oil change on Toyota Cressida with mineral oil? I got real good at changing camshafts).
I would tend to go with what other Diesel/CRD users are going with in your neck of the Woods, Dessert, Plains, Outback, or Tundra.
I use 5W-40 or 5W-50 (her TDI too), it provides protection when I am stuck in 105f traffic jams and don't want to shut off the AC.
Also I start can at -20f when I can't plug in at the Airport.
As long as you don't starve the bearings in cold weather from having oil too thick to flow up the passage ways, you are thin enough. If the oil does not thin out too much in hot weather and cause the engine produce excess engine noise like lifter rattle, chances are you are OK but don't get crazy like run 0W-20 in the US Southwest in July and August.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  0W-40 CF spec - a 1994 spec oil in a 2005 diesel engine
Especially disturbing is the recommended Mobil 0W-40 with its CF API rating. API CF was introduced in 1994 for diesels long before 2004 emissions induced EGR controls were implemented and without the added protection for the additional soot induced by those more stringent emissions requirments. The CI4 rating was introduced in 2002 especially for EGR equipped diesels, specifically 2004 emissions requirements engines, with attention to increased soot handling capabilities. CI4+ was a later modification to extend those soot handling capabilities.

The API CF statement is "For offroad, indirect injected and other diesel engines including those using over .5% weight sulfur."

CI4 API states "...CI4 oils are developed to sustain engine durability where egr is used and are intended for use with diesel fuels with sulfur content up to .5% content..."

I remember one oil engineer posting that the CI4 spec was developed "before we actually had the newer egr equipped engines to test, so the amount of extra soot was based on calculated estimates. When the engines appeared, laboratory tests showed more soot than the egr estimates, so the API spec was later updated to CI4+."

I have no idea as to the validity of that post, but it was an interesting read.

Why an oil not designed for the soot introduced by egr controls was specified for the 2005 CRD is a mystery to me, especially since the CI4 oil spec was nearly 3 years old when the CRD was first released in the US.
Author:  NJCRD [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
My 2006 Manual does not say you MUST USE Mobil 1. It does say full synthetic 0W-40 and 5W-40 is acceptable if you cannot find 0W.
I use the Mobil 1 5W-40 since my first oil change and never looked back. $5.96 a qt from the place I get it. Rotella Full syn is available here for $4.75 a qt. I've seen gas engines pulled apart with over 100K of running the Mobil and they look amazing for their mileage.
I think Shell makes a great product and if Mobil 1 was say $10 a qt I'd be running Shell with no question, but for the $1.21 diff per qt I'm really not to concerned.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah,
It was the 05 FSM with the Mobil One preferred recommendation. It doesn't list any other brand for domestic CRD's. It had only 2 oils listed for US versions, saying that "The preferred engine oil is SAE 0W-40 Mobil One Synthetic. If you cannot locate SAE 0W-40 Mobil One Synthetic, then SAE 5W-40 Mobil One Synthetic would be acceptable." That's the only 2 engine oils listed in the 05 FSM for US CRD's and they make it clear they want Mobil One in there. While Mobil is a good brand, but a ridiculous requirement in terms of a single brand rather than a specification. It's even more absurd when you find that the SAE brand they prefer isn't even formulated to handle the soot in egr engines meeting 2004 emissions requirements.


But then, my 05 FSM has pictorials in places of the instrument panel out of the older XJ. Nice and square instead of the rounded KJ version.

I used the Mobil 1 5W-40 CI4+ exclusively from the first oil change until recently, but only after I researched it enough to learn that it was designed to handle the extra soot loading brought on by egr controls.
Author:  CRDMiller [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
M1's 0-40 is notorious for shearing into a 30 weight oil after a few k miles.
So a shear stable 30 weight, such as the mentioned amsoil, is not horrible, but why?

If your going to use a boutique oil, use one with at least a better add pack and base oil than tdt

Bottom line is the weight recommended by the mfg is a 0-40 or 5-40 since there are no decent 0-40 oils rated for diesel applications, the choice is clear.

Because a MERC used a 30 weight has what relevance to our engine?
Does it have a oil cooler? WE DONT.

Shell Rotella T 5-40 Synthetic or Mobile 1 Turbo diesel truck 5-40 or Delvac 1 5-40 (non esp) synthetic.

Common excellent oils for our crds. no reason to run a 30, your not going to see economy differences, there is no point. it is not cheaper. It does not make sense. It does not last longer, it is not more robust.

We have a turbo and a hyper-active EGR the crd has large soot loading. You need a oil rated to handle that.

CI-4+ OR CJ-4 OR BETTER not less.
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
CRDMiller wrote:
M1's 0-40 is notorious for shearing into a 30 weight oil after a few k miles.

Because a MERC used a 30 weight has what relevance to our engine?
Does it have a oil cooler? WE DONT.


On what basis can you make the statement about the shear above?

And depending on how you define oil cooler, the VM engine is said to have one. It's a heat exchanger block on the turbo side of the engine that cools the oil with engine coolant.
Author:  tcoilburner [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0W-40 CF spec - a 1994 spec oil in a 2005 diesel engine
Ranger1 wrote:
Especially disturbing is the recommended Mobil 0W-40 with its CF API rating. API CF was introduced in 1994 for diesels long before 2004 emissions induced EGR controls were implemented and without the added protection for the additional soot induced by those more stringent emissions requirments. The CI4 rating was introduced in 2002 especially for EGR equipped diesels, specifically 2004 emissions requirements engines, with attention to increased soot handling capabilities. CI4+ was a later modification to extend those soot handling capabilities.

The API CF statement is "For offroad, indirect injected and other diesel engines including those using over .5% weight sulfur."

CI4 API states "...CI4 oils are developed to sustain engine durability where egr is used and are intended for use with diesel fuels with sulfur content up to .5% content..."

I remember one oil engineer posting that the CI4 spec was developed "before we actually had the newer egr equipped engines to test, so the amount of extra soot was based on calculated estimates. When the engines appeared, laboratory tests showed more soot than the egr estimates, so the API spec was later updated to CI4+."

I have no idea as to the validity of that post, but it was an interesting read.

Why an oil not designed for the soot introduced by egr controls was specified for the 2005 CRD is a mystery to me, especially since the CI4 oil spec was nearly 3 years old when the CRD was first released in the US.


What the API doesn't tell anyone is what the oil companies have to change to make the oil fit the new spec. What may be missing (like zinc or ect.) may make the cf speced oil better for our crd than the newer oil. Just like everyone worried about the lubricity of ultra low sulfer diesel fuel. Personally I run Mobil1 0w40 because I want oil to the bearings as fast as possible when it's 0 degrees out. By the way indirect injected engines may make as much soot as ours? :wink:
Author:  nursecosmo [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 0W-40 CF spec - a 1994 spec oil in a 2005 diesel engine
tcoilburner wrote:
What the API doesn't tell anyone is what the oil companies have to change to make the oil fit the new spec. What may be missing (like zinc or ect.) may make the cf speced oil better for our crd than the newer oil. Just like everyone worried about the lubricity of ultra low sulfer diesel fuel. Personally I run Mobil1 0w40 because I want oil to the bearings as fast as possible when it's 0 degrees out. By the way indirect injected engines may make as much soot as ours? :wink:


You have hit that nail square on. The 1994 diesel engines produced WAY more soot than 2005 EGR equiped engines. VW TDIs wern't even out yet, navistar Switched from IDI to DI in that year, GM 6.5L engines used IDI and EGR valves (on some engines) all the way to 2000, Cummins had DI but used high soot producing, static timed IPs until 98.5. California also required EGR implimentation on diesel vehicles around this same time. Mercedes diesels of that period (EGR equiped OM-617) were not known to have particularly soot free oil either.
Author:  RJM [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Incorrect viscosity, and too expensive.
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