Latest on NOX Agriculture and Soil Microbes the Mega Cause

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:39 pm

Early this morning I heard a report that the quantities of Nitrous Oxides coming from Automotive and industrial sources was insignificant in comparison to the amount coming from Agriculture. The only way to let the Ozone hole over Antarctica to finish healing its' self is to reduce the use of Nitrogen Fertilizers so the Microbes in the soil stop producing NOX now considered a green house gas.
My wife's cousin spent some time in Antarctica and even in the summer, he was fully clothed with enough clothing to protect him from any UV radiation that may have gotten past the Ozone hole. In addition to several layers of clothing he wore the appropriate eye protection when out side.

We have EPA enforced legislation that will require Urea to be injected into the exhaust on cars and light trucks, even gassers to reduce NOX emissions that are now considered insignificant.

Comment: We get what we pay for, Government Grants handed out with less control and requirements than welfare checks results in Far Out Theories based upon computer models like this one to become legislation we all have to live with and pay for.
OH, I am waiting to hear that the only solution is to use Cow Manure for fertilizer from cattle who only eat grass so they don't fart methane.

EPA info: http://www.epa.gov/nitrousoxide/sources.html

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:44 pm

Nitrous oxide from ocean microbes
December 11, 2007

A large amount of the greenhouse gas nitrous oxide is produced by bacteria in the oxygen poor parts of the ocean using nitrites, Dr Mark Trimmer told journalists at a Science Media Centre press briefing today.

Dr Trimmer looked at nitrous oxide production in the Arabian Sea, which accounts for up to 18 % of global ocean emissions. He found that the gas is primarily produced by bacteria trying to make nitrogen gas.

Does this mean they need to have low air scoops on muscle speed boats?

Perhaps they should take up another kind of fishing, the kind where you get you supplies from places like Bass Pro Shop instead of our tax money :idea:

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:11 am

Dude, when you post things directly related to diesel engines and the CRD, it is often extremely insightful. I have no problem with an individual exercising their 1st Amendment right and hating on the EPA and CARB, but if they're going to tell a story, I expect them to tell it right.

Global Warming and the hole in the ozone layer are separate issues although they are related.

Global Warming is the observation of the average global temperature rising ever so slightly each year for around the past 20 years or so. It is generally considered to be the result of a change in the atmospheric composition of gasses that result in more efficient trapping of heat. Addition of gasses such as carbon dioxide, water vapor, nitrogen oxide compounds, chlorofluorocarbons, and the like are known to have an effect. How much is that, who knows? Is Global Warming anthroprogenic? No one knows for sure, but there is compelling evidence that suggest it is. Whether it is anthroprogenic or not, should the observations be dismissed and/or ignored? ...that's up for the individual to decide. Are the potential doomsday ramifications for real? ...well, personally, I'm not sure I want to go with a wait and see approach.

The hole in the ozone layer isn't really a formal hole. It is a thinning of the stratospheric ozone over Antartica which waxes and wanes in area depending on the seasons of the year resulting in less efficient blocking of UVB and UVA light. Though primarily an issue for polar regions, the "hole" does pose a risk to those in Australia in terms of increased incidence of skin cancer and eye issues such as cataracts/glaucoma.

The "hole" is the result of chemical reactions that destroy the ozone more quickly than it is created. Actually, the process is an equilibrium that occurs constantly and is actually how the UVB and UVA light is "blocked" from those of us residing in the troposphere. The UV light isn't necessarily deflected, but is consumed since it is the source of energy that drives the creation and destruction of both the O2 and O3 molecules. There are certain other compounds that can participate and shift the equilibrium more to the O2 side of the equation. Until recently, chlorine and bromine containing compounds that compose freons were the poster children. This is the reason CFC-12 was banned in the 80s and no longer used in automobile air conditioners. HCFC-134a was the replacement which actually is under consideration for being banned in Europe.

Global Warming and the ozone hole are different issues. However, they are related because some of the gasses that promote the destruction of ozone happen to be extremely efficient heat absorbers. Freons are on the order of 10,000 times more efficient at absorbing heat than CO2. As pointed out, sort of, nitrous oxide recently took over as the main contributor to the destruction of the ozone layer of which the majority is produced by numerous natural sources. One could surmise that this is actually an example where environmental regulation was "in the right" for banning certain freons since a "natural source" is now predominantly responsible for destruction of the ozone layer instead of an anthroprogenic source.

Bear in mind that nitrous oxide, which is N2O, is a different animal than nitrogen oxides, which are colloquially represented by NOx. NOx compounds are considered bad actors in that they promote the formation of ground level ozone and smog in the presence of VOCs and UV light. The big CA cities aren't the only ones to experience haze and fog. I spent a significant amount of time in Missouri where St. Louis also had its hazy days and sometimes (seldom thankfully) poor air quality index. Any large city with a plethora of cars has this as a potential problem. Beijing banned essentially banned cars in the city the 2 or 3 week prior to the 2008 Summer Games in order to allow the haze to dissipate. One may surmise that auto emissions may indeed be a cause of ground level ozone and smog.

There are many natural sources of NOx compounds. The bacteria on the roots of legumes or clover for instance are capable of nitrogen fixation, the conversion of N2 primarily into ammonia (NH3) although some species can create various NOx species. While these compounds can result in the formation of ground level ozone, it's not that big of a problem since it's only the rural areas that have the plants. Most cities I've seen have far more pavement and cement than plants or cyanobacteria, so their ground level ozone is more likely result of the automobile.

Based the fact that nitrous oxide actually destroys ozone, it seems like it would be a good thing to have around in urban environments to knock out the ground level ozone. It would help counteract the effects of the nitrogen oxides. NxO is not the same as NOx.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:03 pm

I am totally with what needs to be done for Sound Environmental Stewardship. I work for a company who produces Environmental Equipment.
What froths me, is individuals and organizations who generate fear and doomsday scenarios to sell their hawk of wears or promote a Political Agenda that has nothing to do with reality.
Numerous volcanic eruptions (but not every one of course) have each produced millions of times more CFCs than Man Kind has produced in our existence or capable of producing. Should we produce CFCs and dump them in the atmosphere, NO! But it is a well know fact that the Patent on R12 was due to expire and Dupont created a lot of information and resources they handed over to organizations with a Political Agenda and R12 was banned. Then Dupont just happened to come up with 134A along with other new refrigerants and got the Patent.
Other facts that are swept under the rug is that the CO2 levels during the last Ice Age were much higher than they are now, but there was Global Cooling then.
Should we reduce our emissions of CO2, yes! But don't get in a big the Sky is Falling and dream some Big Tax Scam to deplete Companies who write paychecks, just to make some Wantabe on Wall Street Broker make lots of money and wright checks for campaign contributions. The money would be better spent on Paychecks for Engineers, Chemists, and Technicians to find ways to emit less CO2 :!:

One example of flawed science I site is Einstein's Theory of Relativity, it had become a Religion in the Scientific Community. Tesla found some holes in that theory and when other True Scientists Quit Drinking the Public Grant Welfare Kool Aid,Scientific Advancements started to happen. One thing that does not pass the smell test on Global Warming is that the Scientists on the Public Grant Welfare Dole are for it and Independent Scientists are the lone voice that shot holes in it. The best course of action is to practice Sound Environmental Stewardship :!:

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:46 am

Hey Warp2diesel you GO on that NOX debate

And I'll GO on that particulate debate

and we will all continue to promote the viability and usefulness of diesel ICE's

and point out how government (and big business like Oil) is prohibiting expansion and use of a way Americans can have power and economy and value and longevity for our personal transportation needs!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:30 pm

Silverdiesel wrote:

Hey Warp2diesel you GO on that NOX debate

And I'll GO on that particulate debate

and we will all continue to promote the viability and usefulness of diesel ICE's

and point out how government (and big business like Oil) is prohibiting expansion and use of a way Americans can have power and economy and value and longevity for our personal transportation needs!

The only way to bring the scams including Academic Welfare (Meaningless Politically Correct Me Too Studies) to light is total Transparency of all Campaign Funding and Government Spending down to the last Ear Mark. Military and Law Enforcement would have their Special Operations in a lump sum category for National Security reasons. The rest of the Government from the local Township Office to the Whitehouse would have to have every pico-cent accounted for. Why should Government get away with hiding their operational expenses when every Mom and Pop Antique Dealer has to report every cent and put them in special categories so the IRS can not only collect the tax money, but generate Spread Sheets for the Government Officials :!:

When the total transparency of Government happens, no big Oil or Big Commodities scam can hide who they have bought and paid for.
Then with the truth, Diesels will take their place in the Market and Sell as Well As They Perform.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:00 pm

Silverdiesel wrote:

Hey Warp2diesel you GO on that NOX debate

And I'll GO on that particulate debate

and we will all continue to promote the viability and usefulness of diesel ICE's

and point out how government (and big business like Oil) is prohibiting expansion and use of a way Americans can have power and economy and value and longevity for our personal transportation needs!

You guys forgot the "high-fiving" emoticon.

Warp's initial post was about nitrous oxides. While related to the Global Warming/Ozone issue, it's not a suitable argument to render the argument concerning NOx and its sources in the environment as either mute or valid.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:55 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

One example of flawed science I site is Einstein's Theory of Relativity, it had become a Religion in the Scientific Community. Tesla found some holes in that theory and when other True Scientists Quit Drinking the Public Grant Welfare Kool Aid,Scientific Advancements started to happen. :!:

Tesla was a brilliant guy, easily one of the most brilliant the world had ever seen, and we probably fail to appreciate the magnitude of all of his contributions...the electric motor being one of them. And following what appears to be the norm for people of his intellectual gifts, he was bit crazy and insanely obsessive compulsive. I wonder what he could have accomplished if he had been alive today with all of the gadgets and tools at our disposal.

I looked into this Tesla vs. Relativity thing. He reportedly did have issues with Einstein's Theory of Relativity. The problem is that Tesla didn't write this down nor did he publish anything to show the problems with the theory. He didn't publish an alternative either. He verbally spoke of the issues. Unfortunately, this occurred just before he passed away.

As it stands, the Theory of Relativity is still a theory. It hasn't been deemed a law. There have not been substantiated examples to refute it...not sure how one would physically accomplish some of these anyway. Again, Tesla didn't document his problems with Relatively or develop an alternative theory of his own that was more plausible. The "alternative" isn't documented nor was it peer reviewed, so for all intents and purposes, Tesla didn't do anything in terms of disproving Relativity. It probably won't be until the physics community works out the details in the Grand Unification Theory before something else of real substance in terms of "Relativity" comes about.

It may be time to drop the "drinking the Kool-Aid agurment" and using this Tesla vs. Relativity stuff as the basis. It's part of a true scientist's nature to pursue their curiosities and question the what's out there. I agree that money and economics clouds the issue, but the "truth" would come out at some point. There are many stalwarts out there for Relativity and are fans of Einstein, but if someone had a plausible alternative, it would mean great fame for the progenitor. With the ease of communication today, it would be difficult for the scientific community to squelch such a thing if it existed.

The Global Warming debate is a hot button. In Chemical and Engineering News, published by the American Chemical Society, there have been a number of editorials published by members in response to the Society adopting stance on the issue. Most in the community seem to feel that Global Warming is occurring. Some aren't sure why. Some feel it's anthroprogenic. Some feel it's part of a natural cycle. Rather than "why's" in terms of cause, out efforts are probably better spent figuring out the "how" in terms of avoiding a potential slippery slope of no return if things go unchecked. Life will be very different if that point is reached.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:07 pm

When the Tesla Gravemetric drive engine was tested it produced 100,000 times more thrust than old Albert though possible.
Einstein thought the speed of light was the Galactic Speed Limit. Scientists have broken Aubert's speed limit back in the beginning of this decade.
Tesla was a busy man, based upon what I read, he felt that Einstein's Theory of Relativity would be properly reviewed by the Scientific community, it finally started.

When I was a undergrad, the people who are calling for Global Warming now were Calling for an Ice Age back in the 70's.

Just like the Dukes and Knights of the Middle Ages told the King what they though he wanted to hear. Today the Professors and Scientists on the Government Payroll tell the legislature what they want to hear. Just like the Dukes and Knights of the Middle Ages, Professors and Scientists kiss up to get a little of the gold. A few of them work and think independently and have technological breakthroughs others just generate fodder for the spread sheets.
None of the spread sheet fodder generators will solve any real problems, it will be individuals who think outside of the box and work like the scientists above who questioned Albert's Theory and proved part of it to be incorrect.

Good luck kdlewis1975 making your home Urea generator, with all the Anti NOX legislation you may be able to market a kit that will make a few bucks. Or maybe you will come up with a solution to reduce NOX from Nitric Acid production.

I wonder if Cattle fed Seaweed instead of Corn to reduce Methane emissions will taste good when cooked on Mesquite? Just a though for another post :lol: