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CV Axles
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47109		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  FormerlyBankNote4x4 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  CV Axles
After balancing my fairly new tires, getting the wheels aligned, replacing the rotors, replacing the wheel bearing hubs, and replacing the struts, I've finally determined(hopefully) that the CV's are bad.

JE REEL told me $425 to replace the cages, races, etc... each axle!!! with heavy duty parts (this does not include spline shafts). yikes

So I think if I can get some advise I can do this my self.

I think I'm most concerned about greasing the parts during reassembly.

JE REEL lists Neapco and Spicer parts under their CV section.

Should I seek the parts from one of these companies?

Do I need to go heavy duty for longevity? Or does longevity come from proper lubrication?

Do I need to get these cv axles balanced?

Thanks, I realize this is barely Diesel related but I feel the love here.

Josh
Author:  DOC4444 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would suggest getting a second opinion. CVs rarely cause what you are experiencing. This is an awfully expensive path to go down when you are not absolutely sure where the problem lies. Even badly worn CVs usually only cause noise at full lock, not vibration unless they are literally about to fall out.

DOC
Author:  FormerlyBankNote4x4 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
darn, I thought I read that someone described similar vibration and noise when a cv axle went bad.

I checked the motor mounts and they seem tight although i couldn't get a wrench on the upper driver side one.

I don't really have a mechanic that I trust, so I'm trying to fix this thing(with 50,000 miles on it) myself.

It seems like it would be the cv axle since, here's why, it makes a whirling noise at slow speed when I let off the accelerater in that area, and vibrates at higher speeds and makes a roaring noise, and since I replaced the other parts that I thought it could be.

Should I just take it somewhere and get the general run around for knowing more than I should for them to really milk me for a ton of money?

Josh
Author:  warp2diesel [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Having replaced or repacked 100s of CV Joints
A dry or damaged inner CV joint will give you a weird pulsing vibration, but to be honest, since the CRD does not have a catalytic converter directly under the inner CV joint. Chances of having the grease all cooked and dried up on an inner CV joint is less likely than winning the Mega Lotto.
Outer CV joints will knock when you turn corners and be quiet when you go straight.
From a non gambler who can walk past all of the penny slot machines and go to the Casino Buffet eat and walk out, your money would be better invested in Recreational Gambling and a room at the Casino with your Soul Mate than buying a CV joint you don't need.
There may be some off road situations where a so called heavy duty CV joint would help, but that should be at least three quarters of the way down on your Mods to do Wish List.
Author:  Turbo Tim [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Since the CV axel is the center point of a spinning mass, it would take a huge amount of weight to make if out of balance enough for you to feel. The further out from center you go, the less amount of mass it takes to create an out of balance condition.
(Ever notice it only take an ounce or two of lead wheel weights to balance a tire? We are talking pounds on the CV shaft to create the same effect).

When it comes to balancing a tire/wheel assembly, most (if not all now) dynamically balance (or otherwise known as “Spin Balance.)” The problem is “IF” the tire is out of round, it will balance but will not ride nice at all on the Jeep.

Swap tires with someone else, or at least front to back (and always do an “X” pattern when rotating tires. This reverses the rotation on the tire and helps to even the wear on the tread).

Don’t waste your money on the CV shafts. Let us know what you find out.
Author:  FormerlyBankNote4x4 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll do the tire switching tonight to test, and let you know.

Thanks guys!

Josh
Author:  03CDKJ [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you think it is the CV's it probably is..... :wink:

Go to napa.... get a remanned one for $50 There is a core charge so you'll need to have the old cv if you don't have one laying around....
EDITED (sorry, Double that if they are both bad, but $100 isn't bad)

doesn't take too long to change either....
Author:  FormerlyBankNote4x4 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well that puts me back on the fence, i was convinced it was the cv until I found out that it's extremely unlikely.
Napa said no category in their computer for the diesel.

I thought fuel filter might be another possibility but the pressure gauge is at 4 psi(what the Kennedy FP is rated to push).
And Discount Tires told me they check for out of round when they balance, and I just had them balanced.


AAARRRRGGGGG
Author:  warp2diesel [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Do a rapid lane change at 35 MPH +
FormerlyBankNote4x4 wrote:
darn, I thought I read that someone described similar vibration and noise when a cv axle went bad.

I checked the motor mounts and they seem tight although i couldn't get a wrench on the upper driver side one.

I don't really have a mechanic that I trust, so I'm trying to fix this thing(with 50,000 miles on it) myself.

It seems like it would be the cv axle since, here's why, it makes a whirling noise at slow speed when I let off the accelerater in that area, and vibrates at higher speeds and makes a roaring noise, and since I replaced the other parts that I thought it could be.

Should I just take it somewhere and get the general run around for knowing more than I should for them to really milk me for a ton of money?

Josh

If the noise gets louder or quieter, one of your hub bearings may be defective. All it takes to ruin one is to not tighten up the nut on the outer CV joint that also holds the hub bearing together. You can even ruin a new hub bearing by rolling the Vehicle by hand out of the stall with the CV joint nut loose. I never put a load on a hub bearing with out the CV nut tight. When I had to move a car with out the CV, I would put in a dummy bolt to hold the bearing halves together. When I had my own shop one of my techs ruined a set of wheel bearings by rolling the car out side with out the CV joints or the dummy bolts.
Which side is it coming from?
Does it do it in part time four wheel drive?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
A mis-aligned rear driveshaft can cause vibs but since you had it balanced it shouldn't be a issue.Have you checked the front driveshaft? Could be a bent rear axle also.And not to forget the front axle inner axle(passenger side) that connects the pass side CV to the carrier(a mini axle in that long tube on the passenger side of the diff),if it's splines are corroded they can cause slop in the pass side CV shaft causing a vib also.Sadly it's a dealer part only and not cheap.
Author:  FormerlyBankNote4x4 [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
When I did the bearings
I tightened the 3 hub bolts with the spline pushed ~1/2 way in (where the hub stops when pushing it on by hand) and the entire axle pushed in maybe 1" towards the diff.
Then tightened the axle bolt, so it pulled the axle into the hub and torqued it.
Then finished everything else before I put the tires back on.
I also put small dab of anti seize on the splines.

All Sound ok?


It feels like it could be the wheels or tires by the way the front tires pulsate when coasting/decelerating at ~35 mph.
Also at slow speed, idle, it feels like going over small bumps, like the left and right are alternating bumps, real shifty back and forth.

I just put the left front wheel(the suspect) to the rear.
Front felt better, rear felt worse, ok good. Its the wheel or tire!
Then I put the lighter stock spare tire on the left rear, maybe a little better in the rear but still vibration, front and back.
It vibrates around 20-25 mph and 50-60 mph accelerating, decelerating, and decelerating in nuetral.

My Firestone Destinations are uneven from going 12k miles before the 1st rotation about 1k ago.

I don't know if the rear axle could still be the issue. The differential end u-joint was destroyed.
I replaced both u-joints and had the shaft balanced.
But when I put it back on I didn't have a functioning torque wrench, so it may have been unevenly torqued.
The splines had some rust on them, I put some anti seize on them too.
I may have pushed up on the drive shaft at the rear differential to where the rear diff twisted upward towards drive shaft ~ 1/2 inch, then it went back.
Could this mis-allign something?

Thanks for the help so far
Author:  onthehunt [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like your tires are cupped.
Author:  FormerlyBankNote4x4 [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Possible Cause!!!
Alright, It's been a little while. Got the tires balanced again, they were still in balance. Discount tires told me the tires are not cupped.
But I may have figured out the issue!!!

I discovered that the rear drive shaft flange had 2 bolts that were loose enough to turn easily by hand, sweeet, finally a possible cause to my vibration!!!

I wanted to put some grease on the spline so I took it out, greased the spline and this time I was going to torque the flange bolts(85 ft/lbs).

I alternated tightening the 4 bolts to press it evenly against the rear diff.

Torqued 2 bolts, and on the 3rd, CRACK , a little smoke and the flange was split right down the middle.

Maybe it was weakened by stress because the bolts were loose???

Also there is a metal ring that was between the flange and the rear diff.
It's about 1/16" wide and fits right into the hole in the back of the flange.

I didn't notice this at all when I took the drive shaft off and had it balanced etc... the 1st time..
Does it just stick in the flange and came out because I split the flange in 2???

Is this just a spacer to keep the drive shaft off the pinion nut???
Author:  warp2diesel [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Check the FSM
If you are lucky, all of the adjusting shims are between the bearing races and the pinion shaft or between the outer races and housing. In that case, you could replace the yoke and be back in business. Some one who has had the differential apart may want to chime in and advise.

Good luck
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