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New firmware worth $150?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47157		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  scooter_scum [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  New firmware worth $150?
I just found out my ECU has old FW. I asked if it could be upgraded. They said it would cost $150.

I also want to do the Green Diesel FW update. I think the Green Diesel is worth much more than the OEM FW update.

There is potential issues with the computer too. Having issues with Cruise Control that they believe is related to ECU. They are down to replacing the ECU to maybe make that work.

The Liberty feels like it is running rich. MPG is around 21. Shifts like a truck.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Firmware Update on ECM
Sounds like a total scam to me.
When computer hardware or other electronic goodies (like my GPS) have a design glitch that can be fixed with Firmware, they let you do it for free. When they can get you to download and install it for them, they are off the hook for their software design problem.
If there was a problem with the ECM software that effected emissions or safety, Chrysler would be forced to pay the Dealer to do it and provide it to you for free.
Since GDE does ECM programming they should know of any software deficiencies in the programming that need to be fixed.
I hope some one in Chrysler reads your post and has a conversation with the dealer who tried to pull the Firmware scam on you.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
If still under warranty, simply go for a new ECU. If not, pick up a used ECU (some have paid as little as $45!) and send to GDE with your VIN and injector codes. They will make the "spare" work on your vehicle. If you pay them for the relash and the ECU turns out to be bad, they will flash another one for you for no extra charge.

DOC
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
First question: What issues are you having with the cruise control? There haven't been any SW releases to fix issues with cruise, and I don't see how replacing the ECU is going to fix a cruise issue. Cruise control is all SW, so I would point to a vehicle side issue for any problems.

Also, at Boulder's elevation with winter blend diesel and cold temperatures and climbing hills, the mileage doesn't seem out of place. Now, if you're seeing it also in the summer time on flat ground, I would point to either dragging brakes (I've seen this quite a bit, even on new cars), fuel quality, or possibly burnt heater plug on the fuel filter assembly.

Let us know where you stand and we'll be happy to help, as always.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had my FCV unplugged for a day or so to test a theory, and the CRD responded in a very unusual way:

The headlights would come on in parking-light mode, so effectively there was no parking light mode.

The Cruise control would not come on at all.

The CRD still behaved with the over-fuelling, under-performing acceleration after a braking event from 60mph down to about 30 (as if traffic slowed down then sped up again) but to a lesser degree than with the fcv connected.

I would check the performance of your headlamps, see if you can turn on only the parking lights. That might point to a bad fcv connection.
Author:  scooter_scum [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, FCV? Sorry, new to the forum.. What and where is the FCV?
Author:  Sir Sam [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:09 am ]
Post subject: 
scooter_scum wrote:
Ok, FCV? Sorry, new to the forum.. What and where is the FCV?


Flow Control Valve - Its located on the intake elbow where a Throttle Body would be located for a gasoline vehicle. It's purpose is to close down and restrict intake air to create a venturi effect that helps pull in EGR gas into the intake. It also functions at shut down to close off and provide a less rattling shut down.

I don't know WTF geordi is talking about with unplugging his FCV causing issues like that. I ran for 30k miles with it unplugged and the only indication I had of it being unplugged was the CEL(Check Engine Light) and the slightly rougher shutdown).

Also:

Hello from fort collins. Your mileage for around town is not really all that off, I get about 22-23 around town. Depending on your tire size(and therefore mileage calculation) your gas mileage could be spot on with what my in town mileage is.

Your cruise control issues could be 4 things.

the buttons
The Clock Spring
The wiring
The ECU

The buttons should be easy to test, they are simply resistors, you should be able to test them with an ohm meter, if the resistance varies with the different buttons pushed then you know they are working.

The clockspring is easy to check, just check for continuity across the pins on the steering wheel side and the steering column side(backside). The wiring to and from the ECU is also easy to check, just check the continuity between the clock spring plug, and the correct pin on the ECU plug.

Basically you can diagnose the connection between the buttons and the ECU with a $3 mulitmeter. If it really does seem the problem is not there then it would be a good idea to try re-enabling the cruise control via the DRB3/Starscan, and see if that fixes the issue.

Now that being said, what specific symptoms are you having related to the cruise control?
Author:  scooter_scum [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, my wife lives by cruise control. She wanted it fixed before a family trip. I took the jeep to the dealer and they checked all the sensors. As far as they can tell, everything is working.

The symptoms are fairly simple. I can hit the "cruise" button and the light turns on the dash. Then I hit the "set" button and nothing happens. Again the dealer believes the steering wheel controls are working correctly.

Now prior to taking in the jeep to the dealer, I did have a "brake Fuse" blow and then I could not even get the "cruise light" on the dash to turn on. Changed the fuse and again I was OK.

The previous owner did their own wiring harness for a trailer. The dealer theorizes that the installation may have damaged the ECU. Also what caused the fuse to blow.

The folks at Green Diesel believe when the ECU is damaged, it is dead. No starting etc.

I hate electrical stuff. That is why I leave it to the professionals.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
It is possible that the "on" switch, which is different than the "Set" switch, its bad. If the "on" switch works then the wiring to and from the ECU sounds like its fine.

It doesn't take more than 15 mins to check if the switch is functioning correctly.

There are 2 8mm bolts that hold the airbag to the steering wheel, remove those and the airbag will come out, there are two plugs on the back of the airbag, simply squeeze them to remove the airbag, you will then be able to see the wiring for the cruise control. You can either remove the switch, or test the wiring at the clock spring plug. (personally I would test at the switch). Place your mutlitmeter across the pins of the "on/set" switch, when you push the "on" button you should get a resistance reading, now when you push the "set" button you should get a different resistance reading. If you get no change in resistance, or no continuity, then the switch should be to culprit.

Switches are cheap, around $16 for the left switch, and are very easy to install. If you source them from a pull your own junkyard a 2002-2007 KJ will have the correct switches.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
scooter_scum wrote:
The previous owner did their own wiring harness for a trailer. The dealer theorizes that the installation may have damaged the ECU. Also what caused the fuse to blow.


This sounds like a Wild stupid Guess. I'm betting the dealer has no idea what is going on and rather than search out what actually is wrong they are blaming it on something else.

"The reason your transmission computer failed is because you installed extra foglights." :roll:
Author:  geordi [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sam, I'm with you on the confusion about unplugging the FCV causing the weird problems. I have no explanation for that either. I'm going to try and capture the data that GDE wanted today, and I'll try it again after that.
Author:  danoid [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wild theory #2 - are the brake lights on all the time? If the previous owner tapped into the brake signal line (which you have to do) and that signal is now corrupt, then cruise control will not function while the car thinks the brakes are applied.
Author:  scooter_scum [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've driven behind my wife and the brake lights are not on all the time. When I blew the brake light fuse, I could not get the "cruise light" to come on at all.

Will continue to dig. Checked on the Jeep today and have not installed the wheel sensor. The waiting continues.
Author:  UFO [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ditto on the city driving in Denver. My wife drives the CRD (mostly city, shorter trips) and she gets low 20s for mileage.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
When my trailer light controller shorted out, the cruise would not work. Also another time when one of the brake lights burnt out, they wouldn't work.
Author:  scooter_scum [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just heard from the dealer. They replaced the sensor and was taking my CRD for a test drive. At a light, he put it in park reved the engine. When he did this, he observed multiple systems on the car loose power. Engineers at Corporate want to keep the car over night with the battery disconnected. Gotta love some voodoo mechanics!

It ain't over yet!!
Author:  danoid [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
OK, there's a common thread now that brake controllers can interfere with cruise control.

Of those who have installed brake controllers, who can remember what voltage the white w/ tan stripe wire goes to when the brake switch is actuated? (I can't remember)
That's something to check. If there is interference on this line, the engine controller will think the brakes are being applied ... no cruise.
Author:  danoid [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
scooter_scum wrote:
I just heard from the dealer. They replaced the sensor and was taking my CRD for a test drive. At a light, he put it in park reved the engine. When he did this, he observed multiple systems on the car loose power. Engineers at Corporate want to keep the car over night with the battery disconnected. Gotta love some voodoo mechanics!

It ain't over yet!!


It's not voodoo mechanics, it's Microsoft mechanics. And btw I had to do that to the wife's 96 Pontiac when I replaced an ambient air temp sensor. It was 80° out and the automatic air was blowing hot because the car had learned a bad offset from the previous sensor and thought it was only 45°.

The power loss thing sounds like underhood wiring shorting out. If you rev the engine in park it may be flopping on the mounts and shorting something out.

Also, the dealer ship certainly shouldn't be charging for an ECU flash. If there's a higher software revision out there, there's also a TSB to go with it.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
On the 06 CRD's the wiring bundle from the top of the engine rubs where it goes behind the fuel filter bracket :shock: I think the ESP on the 06 modles required something to be raised and the wiring bundle no longer goes where the filterhead mount is bent over for it. This is an old problem and as Danoid said it sounds like a short :wink:
Author:  scooter_scum [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just got a call from the dealer. They believe they have a short on two circuits in the jeep liberty. They listed the systems, but could not remember the jumble of letters.

They are searching the wiring harness that runs the full length of the car looking for two frayed wires. Glad I work high Tech... Sounds like painful work.

They hope it will be up and running with all systems active. ABS, ESP, Cruise control. Boy will my wife be happy!!

But it ain't over till it's really done. Last time I bought it in they spend $200 looking for the Cruise control problem and guessed it was the ECU. See if this is really it!

Thanks again for all the interest in the thread.
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