LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed

not the best pic, but you should get the idea:

and for those of you interested in the part numbers for the new:

Separator 68043089AA
Connector 68043086AA

make sure they order the connector too

new installed on the left .. old set on the right for reference

I am having a problem with the heater leaking. I would like to stay with the CAT filters. I am planning on doing some sort of mod. I was thinking of getting a Perma-Cool filter head instead of the Racor. This way I can keep my CAT filter.

This issue here is the lack of primer. The PermaCool has a dual ins and outs. I was going to add the temp sensor to one of the holes. I was going to add a heater to the other hole. My question is about the primer.

I could use my vacuum pump to pull the air out. I could also put a bleeder on this and possibly some sort of primer bulb inline. Does anyone have any great thoughts on a solution to this? Is there a check valve in the existing head that will need to be considered?

Thanks

before you think I'm nuts..

consider the other common rail diesels..
duramax, cummins, VW.. these all use the CP3

on Cummins..they use a lift pump 10+ PSI..so what's the issue? worried because Jeep has a design issue..just be glad is not a VP44 that croaks at less then 7psi.

this feeds a gear pump. not a diaphragm pump.. I'm not suggesting using a 50psi pump to feed the CP3..just something more than a vacuum..maybe like 5-10psi..be sure it will draw a vacuum..think 20 inches..yes I measured it once..

why?

consider your choice of fuel heads.. 2 in and 2 out..

plug one in..put the lift pump between the tank and the 'new' head on the other in.

the outs..
here's where life can be good...
1 - goes to the CP3...
2 - add a valve..a line and a 'T' into the existing return line...hmm?? this isn't my idea..so I not claiming it..BUT ITS A GOOD IDEA. why? well..instead of pumping a priming bulb you'll just have to open the valve and bump the starter..turn the key on..maybe a couple of times..not sure it can get much easier?

in case you're wondering...my wife's jeep is setup just this way..but her's has a Racor fuel head..

its up to you what you choose..since you live in the land of the Cold I would suggest something that keeps the fuel heater.

-dkenny

ps if I could figure out how/where to install an airdog 100 I would..without question..

What's stock anymore with Cat filters??

Does the cat filter have the water separator feature built in?

Water will get caught by the filter, but the filter does not have a drain on it

Author:	andrewvanh80 [ Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
I am having a problem with the heater leaking. I would like to stay with the CAT filters. I am planning on doing some sort of mod. I was thinking of getting a Perma-Cool filter head instead of the Racor. This way I can keep my CAT filter. This issue here is the lack of primer. The PermaCool has a dual ins and outs. I was going to add the temp sensor to one of the holes. I was going to add a heater to the other hole. My question is about the primer. I could use my vacuum pump to pull the air out. I could also put a bleeder on this and possibly some sort of primer bulb inline. Does anyone have any great thoughts on a solution to this? Is there a check valve in the existing head that will need to be considered? Thanks

Author:	ATXKJ [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
did you install the CAT adapter in a new style or old style fuel head? The new style appears to fix the heater plug issue or at least I haven't seen any posts of problems other than wire color on the install. it might cost a bit more to order a new one and then reinstall the adapter - but you keep primer, temp sensor, heater and of course the CAT. (as a temporary measure you might just do an epoxy (JB weld) plug for the heater - it should work as long as it's warm outside) bbo wrote: not the best pic, but you should get the idea: and for those of you interested in the part numbers for the new: Separator 68043089AA Connector 68043086AA make sure they order the connector too new installed on the left .. old set on the right for reference

Author:	andrewvanh80 [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
I put it into and old style head. I was leaking before this though. Is that seperator part number just the puck?

Author:	ATXKJ [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
It's the head with a new stock filter.

Author:	CATCRD [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
andrewvanh80 wrote: I am having a problem with the heater leaking. I would like to stay with the CAT filters. I am planning on doing some sort of mod. I was thinking of getting a Perma-Cool filter head instead of the Racor. This way I can keep my CAT filter. This issue here is the lack of primer. The PermaCool has a dual ins and outs. I was going to add the temp sensor to one of the holes. I was going to add a heater to the other hole. My question is about the primer. I could use my vacuum pump to pull the air out. I could also put a bleeder on this and possibly some sort of primer bulb inline. Does anyone have any great thoughts on a solution to this? Is there a check valve in the existing head that will need to be considered? Thanks Do you have a lift pump? If so, the primer is pretty unnecesary.

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Author:	andrewvanh80 [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
No lift pump. No intentions to run with one either. Definitely don't want start the debate again, but running a pressure system on a vacuum design scares me. Those injection pumps are too darn expensive for me to risk it. I am thinking that since I still have some powertrain warranty left, I will leave it stock. I would love to changeover to something better without spending the cash on the Racor. Why hasn't someone had a machine shop tool up that puck with some room for sensors?

Author:	warp2diesel [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
Last winter I ran with out my heater and had no issues. Since the whole crap about Global Warming is a made up Fairy Tail to get Government Grant & UN Money from National Governments, I am planning for some -20F weather and will install a switch to turn on the heater when it is -10F or colder. Does Cat have a filter head you like?

Author:	dkenny [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
before you think I'm nuts.. consider the other common rail diesels.. duramax, cummins, VW.. these all use the CP3 on Cummins..they use a lift pump 10+ PSI..so what's the issue? worried because Jeep has a design issue..just be glad is not a VP44 that croaks at less then 7psi. this feeds a gear pump. not a diaphragm pump.. I'm not suggesting using a 50psi pump to feed the CP3..just something more than a vacuum..maybe like 5-10psi..be sure it will draw a vacuum..think 20 inches..yes I measured it once.. why? consider your choice of fuel heads.. 2 in and 2 out.. plug one in..put the lift pump between the tank and the 'new' head on the other in. the outs.. here's where life can be good... 1 - goes to the CP3... 2 - add a valve..a line and a 'T' into the existing return line...hmm?? this isn't my idea..so I not claiming it..BUT ITS A GOOD IDEA. why? well..instead of pumping a priming bulb you'll just have to open the valve and bump the starter..turn the key on..maybe a couple of times..not sure it can get much easier? in case you're wondering...my wife's jeep is setup just this way..but her's has a Racor fuel head.. its up to you what you choose..since you live in the land of the Cold I would suggest something that keeps the fuel heater. -dkenny ps if I could figure out how/where to install an airdog 100 I would..without question..

Author:	onthehunt [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
What's stock anymore with Cat filters?? There are many people with stock fuel setups with more than 100,000 miles. The fuel system is not the weak point in this vehicle IMHO.

Author:	andrewvanh80 [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
dkenny wrote: before you think I'm nuts.. consider the other common rail diesels.. duramax, cummins, VW.. these all use the CP3 on Cummins..they use a lift pump 10+ PSI..so what's the issue? worried because Jeep has a design issue..just be glad is not a VP44 that croaks at less then 7psi. this feeds a gear pump. not a diaphragm pump.. I'm not suggesting using a 50psi pump to feed the CP3..just something more than a vacuum..maybe like 5-10psi..be sure it will draw a vacuum..think 20 inches..yes I measured it once.. why? consider your choice of fuel heads.. 2 in and 2 out.. plug one in..put the lift pump between the tank and the 'new' head on the other in. the outs.. here's where life can be good... 1 - goes to the CP3... 2 - add a valve..a line and a 'T' into the existing return line...hmm?? this isn't my idea..so I not claiming it..BUT ITS A GOOD IDEA. why? well..instead of pumping a priming bulb you'll just have to open the valve and bump the starter..turn the key on..maybe a couple of times..not sure it can get much easier? in case you're wondering...my wife's jeep is setup just this way..but her's has a Racor fuel head.. its up to you what you choose..since you live in the land of the Cold I would suggest something that keeps the fuel heater. -dkenny ps if I could figure out how/where to install an airdog 100 I would..without question.. All good stuff. I think if I could figure out where to put the airdog, I might just borrow one of the CAT Quad heads that is on some of the earth movers at work. Sure it would cost about 300$ to replace the fuel filter(s), but I am pretty sure I would only have to do it once. I had thought of teeing the output line into the return and running a lift pump. This would give me some very slight positive pressure from whatever the resistance of the line is. This would eliminate the worry of having positive pressure into the CP3. I would then tap into the fuel temp sensor, and put a heater that was controlled outside of the ECU. From what I understand about the stock heater, it isn't thermostatically controlled, but rather made out of a positive temperature comp material. I haven't metered the heater lines for voltage to confirm, but think I read it someplace. I have a Perma-Cool dual in and out head ordered that will fit the CAT filters. I may play around with this and see if I can get it working. Is there a cheaper lift that the Kennedy? 200$ seems kind of spendy.

Author:	ATXKJ [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
onthehunt wrote: What's stock anymore with Cat filters?? x2 Dr Harv had them reject warranty on a CP3 because of the CAT - it's a bright yellow flag that something's changed. In tank lift pump ~$150 or so http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=37868 of course - I'd rather fix the leak problem and add the lift pump as a safety factor.

Author:	dkenny [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
I got my lift pump at advance auto..the Mr green pump..$60.. I would prefer the airdog for duplicate filters to my truck and reliability. but they are costly..and don't use the CAT filters..they're 2micron..if that helps but so is Racor..R25S.. i've thought about adding a fuel pressure regulator to the return line instead of the valve, but the valve is easier. just open to bled the air out.. it runs about 9 psi..no problems..not too much pressure..either -dkenny

Author:	racertracer [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
Does the cat filter have the water separator feature built in?

Author:	andrewvanh80 [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
racertracer wrote: Does the cat filter have the water separator feature built in? Water will get caught by the filter, but the filter does not have a drain on it.

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Author:	racertracer [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
If the modified fuel filter lacks the water in fuel feature then this modification should not be considered. The water in fuel light saved my injectors and high pressure pump recently by alerting me to shut down the motor when I unknowingly filled up with a batch of bad fuel. I wouldn't swap out that feature for anything. You can read about it in my recent post regarding water in fuel..................... that was a fiasco.

Author:	onthehunt [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
Quote: Water will get caught by the filter, but the filter does not have a drain on it Water can and will pass through it. I highly suggest a seperate water seperator if you are going to use the cat filter. It's not the micron rating that traps the water.

Author:	racertracer [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel Filter Head Opinions Needed
Our OEM fuel/Water separator filter is more expensive for a reason. Not only does it filter our fuel but it also monitors water content in fuel so that our mules work without a hitch. I took advantage of the yearly 40% spring rebate on filters from NAPA auto parts this March. I paid $19.00 ea. for my replacement fuel filters. Stocked up on those and the others too. I don't see a need to modify our OEM fuel/water separator filter head with any other. Ours works just fine now that Chrysler updated it.