Mechanic: "Turbo Blown"

o1dscratch · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 10:11 am

So heres the story:

I loaned my jeep out, an 'event' happened, and it has virtually no power and throwing the underboost code. I think that its a hose or maybe the egr valve stuck in the open position. CAC hose is a sweating oil to the point where your hand comes out midnight black after gripping it. You can still hear the turbo start up, but then no power.

SO i brought it to a mechanic, he found a gash in a CAC hose that I missed, but also insist that my turbo is blown, that its leaking way too much oil to be healthy at all and that it is blown if not shortly going to be. He wants 1700 just for the turbo. I'll talk to him soon and find out if theres any bandaid options I can do, but does anyone know where I can pick up a stock turbo cheap? Hoses too. I'm looking more for a get it done right, but cheap option right now since money is tight!

Thanks in advance!

Metal Man · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 10:18 am

I work on a lot of VW TDI's and have yet to see one with a dry intake. I don't know how hard it would be to pull the hoses off the turbo and start it to check for oil leaking from it. If you can do that easily I would do that, otherwise I would just put the hose on it and run it. Check the oil once in a while to see if you're loosing any.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 10:21 am

More than likely he is trying to use vasoline on you. I had a CAC hose weeping oil around 50,000 miles ago. Put on a new one and all is fine now. Replace the gashed hose and see what that does for you.

dgeist · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 10:34 am

BVCRD wrote:

More than likely he is trying to use vasoline on you. I had a CAC hose weeping oil around 50,000 miles ago. Put on a new one and all is fine now. Replace the gashed hose and see what that does for you.

X2. checkout one of the online parts places for a new (or a new set) of intercooler hose(s) and see if that fixes the problem. That can be done for a little over $100 for the full set. Less if you only need the warm (turbo) side. If the turbo's still going to die, you won't have hurt anything checking it out and you still need a new hose anyway, so it's win-win.

Dan

geordi · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 10:55 am

YOUR TURBO IS NOT BLOWN OR IN THE PROCESS.

Sorry for shouting, but I wanted to make that abundantly clear. Your mechanic is wrong.

When you change the oil, do you fill it right to the "full" mark on the dipstick? Do you not have a separate scratch / notch for the correct amount?
If you answered YES to either of those questions, YOU ARE THE SOURCE OF THE OIL.

Simply put, the engine wants to find its own level for the oil when it is overfilled. The factory level is not correct (overfilled) and the engine will dutifully pump that oily mist out in LARGE AMOUNTS into the intake if you have not done an EHM on it. Once it gets back to its proper desired level, the mist won't contain any more oil... But your intake will look like the engine is bleeding to death. It isn't.

Relax. Deep breath. Again. Repeat after us: Your intake is filthy with oil that came from the CCV, NOT from the turbo.

If your turbo was leaking and not being lubricated, you wouldn't have gotten 10 miles out of it. You blew a hose because it was rotted out from the oil contamination. NO BIG DEAL. To prevent this from ever happening again, replace the two pressure hoses that are filthy and rotten... And do an EHM on the engine. Next oil change, put in 6.4 quarts (listed as the "correct" oil change in the books) and after letting it sit (off) for 30-45 minutes, measure on the dipstick and mark it. That is your correct amount. It will be somewhere in the middle of the range, but not at or above the "full" mark.

If you take it to one of those jiffy-jerk places, they will overfill it for you. Then your EHM will protect your new hoses... But not your driveway. Once the engine re-reaches its happy point, the EHM will stop drooling oil on your driveway.

I've pretty much killed each of these parts on my CRD, so take some confidence from that to your mechanic. He is wrong about this. Ask him if he has ever opened up the intake on a VW TDI... Chances are, he hasn't, or he would KNOW that this is the normal appearance of the "EPA approved CLEAN design" where the intake is polluted by the engine itself.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 11:35 am

I doubt your turbo is blown, the oily crap is coming from the Crank Case Vent. When the engine is overfilled on oil, and even when it is not but to a lesser extent, oily mist comes out the CCV. This mist builds up in the hoses and causes them to fail by degrading the rubber.

I seriously doubt you have a blown turbo. Replace the hoses and drive the Jeep. Worst case scenario is that you drive the Jeep another 100 miles and then have to pay the $1700 for a new turbo. Best case scenario you replace the hose and never see that mechanic again.

I doubt the mechanic is intentionally trying to screw you, but it sounds like he is just not knowledgeable about diesel turbos. If you saw anything like you see in the CRD intake in a gasser turbo you would know that the turbo seals were blown on the gasser turbo, this is not the case at all for a diesel.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 11:38 am

x2, what geordi said... spend a couple hundred bucks on a nice set of new-model OEM or Samco CAC hoses and I bet your "blown turbo" will miraculously be fixed... Your symptoms are the same symptoms we see on here about once a month, when other CRD owners have the exact same problem and mechanics make the exact same claim. :JEEPIN:

o1dscratch · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 12:03 pm

Just got done talking to the mechanic. I trust this guy, and though he has never worked on a liberty crd, he has worked on all my past cars and did me a few solids. I asked him first, "how much oil did you find in the CAC hoses?" hoping to hear it was just a bit...

WELL... he told me the intercooler had filled with oil and that the turbo was pumping oil out in such quantities that I would run out of engine oil in the not to distant future. He said a seal must have blown in the turbo somewhere. He's doing me a pretty good solid and not charging any markups on parts, and might give a good discount on labor too. Too the effects of 1300 for the turbo...

The way he described it, without me prompting that I only wanted the hoses fixed, has convinced me he knows what he's talking about. Going to ask for the old turbo back after-wards, should be fun dissecting it.

:grim:

Turbo

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 12:29 pm

o1dscratch wrote:

Just got done talking to the mechanic. I trust this guy, and though he has never worked on a liberty crd, he has worked on all my past cars and did me a few solids. I asked him first, "how much oil did you find in the CAC hoses?" hoping to hear it was just a bit...

WELL... he told me the intercooler had filled with oil and that the turbo was pumping oil out in such quantities that I would run out of engine oil in the not to distant future. He said a seal must have blown in the turbo somewhere. He's doing me a pretty good solid and not charging any markups on parts, and might give a good discount on labor too. Too the effects of 1300 for the turbo...

The way he described it, without me prompting that I only wanted the hoses fixed, has convinced me he knows what he's talking about. Going to ask for the old turbo back after-wards, should be fun dissecting it.

:grim:

Turbo

Your deal, but I'd still try replacing the CAC hoses first... You said that one was blown, so you're going to have to spend that money already anyways. I'm not fond of spending $1700 for something that might be a simple $100 fix (and has been, more than a dozen times, with these same symptoms and diagnosis, in the year since I joined this forum). :2cents:

This line is pretty telling: "I trust this guy, and though he has never worked on a liberty crd, he has worked on all my past cars and did me a few solids." I'm glad you have a trustworthy mechanic, but a trustworthy mechanic who doesn't know what he is doing with a common rail diesel engine and its associated components is little better than a mechanic who is intentionally cheating you - both will cost you unnecessary amounts of money by either making their judgments based on experience with gassers or just simply guessing until something helps. IMHO, once you buy a diesel you need to find a mechanic who knows diesels; the average mechanic who knows how to replace a timing belt on your Honda or Toyota is not enough.

o1dscratch · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 12:33 pm

I would have to buy the hoses, and then drain my intercooler... the engine also looks to be a quart or 2 low on oil...

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 12:39 pm

o1dscratch wrote:

I would have to buy the hoses, and then drain my intercooler... the engine also looks to be a quart or 2 low on oil...

You won't need to drain the intercooler, no... that oil will burn off eventually. You would need to buy the upper hose, only (both, if you want) and spend 15 minutes in the garage with a flat-head screwdriver to do the swap.

The engine will always look like it is a quart or two low on oil. See geordi's post above. The dipstick on every CRD produced is inaccurate. 6.4 quarts, the required amount, will only reach about the midpoint between Min and Max. If you get your oil changed by someone who doesn't know what they are doing with a CRD, they will overfill your system. That will send mountains of oil through the intercooler until the excess burns out and the engine reaches the 6.4 quart level. This is why your mechanic is seeing so much oil in the turbo and intercooler; your turbo is absolutely fine.

Next time you have your oil change, add exactly 6.4 quarts (+/- the difference between the oil filter you use and the stock filter capacity, if any) and mark your dipstick. Don't put one drop more in your engine. A little will always flow through the turbo/CAC hoses/intercooler (unless you install a Provent or EHM - see elsewhere on here), but it won't hurt anything.

cerich · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 4:38 pm

you are getting very good advice that if ignored will VERY likely end up wasting about $1600 of your $$$

o1dscratch · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 5:04 pm

When i mentioned I was a quart or 2 low... I mean below the min line. Changed my oil a few weeks ago too. Went home for lunch today and discovered a very large oil stain where I had parked the jeep before bringing it to the mechanic.

Thanks for all the advice! I really appreciate it. I was all set on just putting hoses on it, but when facts start adding up, you got to throw out the solutions that no longer make sense. It seems like I am one of the rare few that had the honor :roll:

of having a blown turbo. Just thanking the Flying Spaghetti Monster that it didn't decide to blow bearings through my motor.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 5:12 pm

I find it hard to believe the CAC hose blew at the exact moment the turbo shelled. That split CAC hose would have made you stand up and take notice all by itself. :roll:

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The low oil is not a good sign if you just replaced it and verified the oil level after the change. If the CAC hose was blown and you drove it a while it is possible that the turbo oversped in the meantime and blew a bearing seal. The stock turbo is older technology and has its limitations. Try the simple things first and then replace the turbo if oil is still coming out of the compressor at a high rate.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 5:34 pm

BVCRD wrote:

I find it hard to believe the CAC hose blew at the exact moment the turbo shelled. That split CAC hose would have made you stand up and take notice all by itself. :roll:

And, if you don't trust me, listen to GDE... they really, seriously know these engines. On the low oil level, did you accidentally strip the oil plug? It is incredibly easy to do so... and that could lead to the oil on the ground that you've seen, as well.

Like I said, you will currently be replacing the CAC hoses and turbo, anyways. Why not humor all us experts and "experts" and just trying replacing the hoses first... It won't cost you one dime more in the long run, and may save you $1500 in the process. :2cents:

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 6:25 pm

X100 on what everyone else has already said. If your mechanic told you that the seal is blown, he does not understand diesel turbos. We don't have an oil "seal" such as you would find in a gasser. Our turbos use an "oil slinger" type seal which works centrifugally. As long as the turbo is spinning, it doesn't leak.

Just trust what all the experts here are telling you, otherwise why did you ask for help? You do NOT need the turbo to be replaced at this point. The oil in the intake is coming from the CCV valve and is normal in all CRDs. There is always some oil pooling in the intercooler, but it is self limiting. If there were too much oil in the intake it would suck a big glug through and give you a huge black cloud of smoke. If you still have doubts about the turbo, just replace the hoses and wait to see if the turbo craps out. If it's bad you would still have to replace it anyway. If it isn't, you've just saved $1600 thanks to all the guys here who have gone through exactly what you are experiencing right now.

PS. The new OEM hoses have been redesigned to be oil proof and should not split again.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 7:13 pm

stoutdog wrote:

Like I said, you will currently be replacing the CAC hoses and turbo, anyways. Why not humor all us experts and "experts" and just trying replacing the hoses first... It won't cost you one dime more in the long run, and may save you $1500 in the process. :2cents:

EXACTLY!

It costs you nothing more to try just the hoses first, than it does to do the hoses, find out, and then do a turbo.

I just don't get it, when you try to fix a problem you don't throw the most expensive parts out first. You try something cheap, see if it works, and then move on.

When you do an experiment you don't change a bunch of variables at once, you change one at a time so you can understand and make quality comparisons, this is no different.

What harm comes from replacing the turbo hoses first, and seeing if everything is fine?

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 8:09 pm

If you end up having to replace the turbo, don't buy a "remanufactured" one. These turbos have incredibly tight tolerances, and are not meant to be taken apart and rebuilt. See if you can budget $2500 for Green Diesel Engineering's turbo kit. If you are replacing, well, you might as well upgrade, right? It would be only 25% more than what you would spend on a stock replacement. Just my :2cents:

geordi · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2010 9:09 pm

I'm so confident that EVERYONE here is telling you the best advice, I will go one better: I will put my money where my mouth is.

IF you choose to have the turbo replaced, get it back from the mechanic, and I will buy it off you for $200 sight-unseen.

I am that confident that it would be a good investment for me that I'm willing to put it out there on an open forum. You do NOT need a new turbo. Hey, its your money no matter what... But we are trying to SAVE you some of it. I have a trusted mechanic for my CRD too, that had never touched a CRD before I asked him to completely REPLACE the engine.

The result? The exhaust manifold had a nut missing, the rest were not tight the way they should have been... And I can only guess what else wasn't done right after this mechanic BROKE my front cover and destroyed all the rocker arms b/c he didn't bother to read the service manual that I PROVIDED HIM.

Trust means NOTHING unless they have seen a diesel before. These are NOT the same as a gasser in any way.

Mechanic: "Turbo Blown"

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