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Why Front Pump with the new TC?
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Author:  RTStabler51 [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Why Front Pump with the new TC?
It looks like in the next few months I'll have to get a new Torque Converter. What I'm confused on is why it is recommended to change the front pump along with it. I'm not a tranny guy so be gentle. Also what is the PN for the front pump? Is there anything else that should go with this?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
RTStabler51 wrote:
It looks like in the next few months I'll have to get a new Torque Converter. What I'm confused on is why it is recommended to change the front pump along with it. I'm not a tranny guy so be gentle. Also what is the PN for the front pump? Is there anything else that should go with this?


It's standard procedure to replace the front seal when replacing the TC :BANANA: But the original front seal is no longer available so you have to get the redesigned pump and cover that has the new seal :jester: There's also a new valve in it that was previously wearing out and or leaking internally. There were air leaks in this area and the pump was one of the areas. Since your not a transmission guy, neither am I, I understand when taking the pump off if your not carefull you'll have a mess :dizzy:
Author:  DOC4444 [ Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
I suggest the following: If the only trans problem you are having is the 58 MPH "shudder", you should be just fine with only installing the "euro" TC (now the "standard" TC for the KJ CRD). The only issue would be if upon disassembly, you find that the seal is leaking. Everyone I know who has installed a "euro" TC has found the seal to be intact and all they had to do was replace the TC and have had excellent results. However, if the TC seal is leaking, the previous poster is correct that because the "old" style seal is no longer available, you have to replace the pump just to change the seal.

I would suggest contacting GDE for guidance as to exactly how to accurately judge signs of TC seal leakage. (We had our dealer replace the TC as part of a warranty repair of the rear main seal. They said the seal was "fine", did not replace the pump and everything has been fine for over 15K including several K of towing a 5K trailer.)

It is my opinion that before the key issue causing shudder was really understood (i.e. weak TC springs), a lot of pumps were replaced that really did not need to have been.

GDE suggests installing the TC, then doing a trans filter and fluid change. Check their website for a nice set of detailed instructions for dong the TC replacement yourself.

Hope the job goes smoothly.

DOC
Author:  RTStabler51 [ Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
I've never had any issues with the shudder as some. I've had it may 5 times in my almost 5 years of ownership. the issue I'm starting to have is delayed engagement. I added about 1/2 qt of ATF+4 last night, so we'll see if that cures it. The pump replacement makes sense now, I was thinking it was SOP to replace it on TC replacement.

BTW, if the seal is leaking what's the symptoms? Can you visibly see it on the ground leaking?
Author:  warp2diesel [ Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
If you don't want to go the ~$300 for the front pump, you can use one of the check valve kits from Transgo or Sonnax. Transgo throws it into their valve kit their valve that works well. Sonnax has a neat valve that takes a $1500 tool to bore out the worn area in the front pump and slide in there valve assembly.
Why does the check valve in the front pump go bad, Bean Counter Engineering that did not take into consideration the variation in casting quality where the check ball seats. If you got a good spot of aluminum under the ball, yours may run for a long time, crap quality, the check valve will crap out and you have problems. Boils down to luck with Bean Counter Engineering that booty$sumes all castings are perfect with no soft spots, hard spots, slag, or a mix of hard spot/soft spot where the check ball sits, nothing more.

You have 4 options:
1) Hope you are lucky and only swap the TC.
2) Replace the front pump. Make sure you get the kit with the cover if you do.
3) Go with the Transgo kit and install the check valve repair kit in the front pump.
4) Find a Trans Shop with the $1500 Sonnax tool and have them put in the Sonnax repair valve.

Delay in shifting into gear can be either a bad back drain valve in the filter or a bad check valve in the front pump.

With any of the 4 choices you will need to take the responsibility for the choice you make.
Author:  fastRob [ Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
This is where I was when we replaced the pump, t/c and did a shift kit.
Shift kit components went into the new pump and the transmission body.
If I remember correctly the old pump which they all were in 05-06 production had a defect, were redesigned and the new pumps are the only thing one can buy now.
I said this before. The transmission repair guy asked me to call the transco shift kit mfg to ask about replacing parts in the new pump. The transco guy said the shift kit parts were better, replace them.
Please, let us hear what you do.
I wanted this done once, it did not work out that way for me, still waiting for the shop to finish my transmission, again........
Author:  warp2diesel [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
Here is an illustration showing the bad valve in the front pump

Image

Both Transgo and Sonnax use sleeves to fix the problem.

With either fix, there is a chance of screw ups or a chance there is a flaw in the pump that the valve can't fix.
Have the shop call SunCoast and talk to Ron and explain the problem, you spent the money they don't want you to have a problem.
Author:  flman [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
warp2diesel wrote:

You have 4 options:
1) Hope you are lucky and only swap the TC.
2) Replace the front pump. Make sure you get the kit with the cover if you do.
3) Go with the Transgo kit and install the check valve repair kit in the front pump.
4) Find a Trans Shop with the $1500 Sonnax tool and have them put in the Sonnax repair valve.

Delay in shifting into gear can be either a bad back drain valve in the filter or a bad check valve in the front pump.

With any of the 4 choices you will need to take the responsibility for the choice you make.


Warp, where can I get the Transgo kit, I have the TC coming Thursday, and might as well throw in the valve.
Author:  RTStabler51 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
warp2diesel wrote:

You have 4 options:
1) Hope you are lucky and only swap the TC.
2) Replace the front pump. Make sure you get the kit with the cover if you do.
3) Go with the Transgo kit and install the check valve repair kit in the front pump.
4) Find a Trans Shop with the $1500 Sonnax tool and have them put in the Sonnax repair valve.



With any of the 4 choices you will need to take the responsibility for the choice you make.

Thanks for all that info, but I'm going with actually option 5 which will double my hp and tq. That is a PSD F250 it looks like.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Front Pump with the new TC?
flman wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:

You have 4 options:
1) Hope you are lucky and only swap the TC.
2) Replace the front pump. Make sure you get the kit with the cover if you do.
3) Go with the Transgo kit and install the check valve repair kit in the front pump.
4) Find a Trans Shop with the $1500 Sonnax tool and have them put in the Sonnax repair valve.

Delay in shifting into gear can be either a bad back drain valve in the filter or a bad check valve in the front pump.

With any of the 4 choices you will need to take the responsibility for the choice you make.


Warp, where can I get the Transgo kit, I have the TC coming Thursday, and might as well throw in the valve.


I got mine from SunCoast when I got the converter.
Transgo web page: http://www.transgo.com/
They will let you know where to get one.
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