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4 Diesel selections at the pump?
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Author:  dieselenthusiast [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Okay, I’ve seen this at the pump a few times and I’m a little confused.

Red Dyed Diesel $2.37
#1 Diesel $3.27
50% #1 Diesel and 50% #2 Diesel $3.07
#2 Diesel $2.87

Why are they offering 50% #1 and 50% #2 blend?
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Strange. Normally, #1 and #2 blend is used for sub-freezing weather to help fight gelling. I'm certain that in New Mexico right now you don't have that issue. :)

Obviously the stuff with the dye in it is for agricultural use only and if you get busted running it on the highway it's a big problem.
Author:  CRD Joe [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Ive never seen anything like that. :BANANA:
Author:  dieselenthusiast [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
I also don’t understand why #1 diesel cost more than # 2 diesel. From my understanding, #2 diesel is heavier than #1 diesel and has more heat energy per gallon. Isn’t #2 better than #1 diesel?
Author:  fastRob [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Up here in Maine where taxes and fees are alway increased I can offer some options.

1. Diesel for the pure road warrier road, taxes included, varies by weather, kero added in winter
2 #1 Kerosene does not jell in winter below freezing for heating, cooking, red dye added
3 #2 Heating oil must be above freezing in winter (rot gut), red dye added
4 Usually #2 Off road farm machinery, no road tax but includes sales tax, red dye added
Author:  linewarbr [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
If the ambient temperature is above 20 degrees F, use #2. If it is below, use the 50/50 blend.

You have less chance of getting checked by a cop for off-road diesel if you're in your Jeep, but it's a heavy fine and could involve impoundment of your vehicle if you get caught. I wouldn't risk it unless you are buying it in a rural area and immediately driving to an urban area. City cops don't usually check for dyed diesel.
Author:  dieselenthusiast [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
linewarbr wrote:
If the ambient temperature is above 20 degrees F, use #2. If it is below, use the 50/50 blend.

You have less chance of getting checked by a cop for off-road diesel if you're in your Jeep, but it's a heavy fine and could involve impoundment of your vehicle if you get caught. I wouldn't risk it unless you are buying it in a rural area and immediately driving to an urban area. City cops don't usually check for dyed diesel.


I don't think the #1 was dyed. The pump had the red dyed labeled. I figured that the distributor had too much of the winter #1 Diesel left so they are trying to be creative in finding ways to get rid of it; however, I’m perplexed as to why the 50/50 blend costs more than the #2. :juggle:
Author:  warp2diesel [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Was the area between the nostrils of the guy's nose eaten away from some kind of powder that looks like Donut sugar? :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
Sometimes I think that is how they come up with fuel prices. :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

#2 is best for Spring/Summer/Fall, blend in Winter.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
In my area (cold Northern Wisconsin), fuel stations post the percentage of #1 at the pump in winter time. As the temps approach the coldest in January, they get up to 100%. The bigger stations have a 50/50 blend all the time. I don't know who buys it in summer, but a lot of farmers will start filling their transfer tanks in the fall time.
Author:  boilermaker2 [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Sounds like your service station has a very diversified clientele base or possibly has enough volume from other machinery sectors to justify all of the blends. I see that you are at 7k feet. If you are in a mining or logging area, many of those monsters would run dyed diesel as well as the trucks that stay in the pit. If he services a high-altitude clientele, I could see where some would see the trade-off between mileage lost and getting stranded as justified.
:2cents: :seuss:
Author:  ATXKJ [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
I'm totally lost at the concept of 'selections'
here you can select 'diesel' or 'not diesel'.......
Author:  boilermaker2 [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
At a few of the farm locales here you can get dyed and undyed diesel. Off-road diesel (dyed) must be used in vehicles with SMV signs (the triangles). At least one of my friends, maybe two, have had their tanks checks in the pick-up (because farms can have ORD delivered to their farms). The DOT trooper will stick a probe down the tank to detect the dye. If you have the dye in an on-road vehicle (which means you are not paying your taxes :goink: ), you will surely pay :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
So, the giant pit-mine trucks, cranes, dozers, etc may all run dyed but the dump trucks hauling out onto the road need the undyed. Same would be true of the loggers: skids and cranes, dyed; semis:undyed. On some large construction sites, you'll see that the fuel tanker is clearly marked....with two resevoirs.
Author:  dieselenthusiast [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
boilermaker2 wrote:
I see that you are at 7k feet.


Actually, I’ve been working in Montana this year, so this particular gas station is near the Wyoming/Montana border. Sorry for the confusion.
Author:  boilermaker2 [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
IMHO I think that strengthens my best-guess argument. You're at higher latitudes AND altitudes :seuss: .

Anyway, beautiful country out there. 4 choices is a little high but I can think of at least one Co-op here (on the snobby side of the "city" no less) that offers at least 4. Some will custom blend for on-farm delivery (you pay, they play).

Thanks for the clarification. I'm trying to save some :2cents: to get my kids to Colorado Springs in July...maybe Yellowstone next year. They've seen the Smokies but have never seen "real" mountains.

:JEEPIN:
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
#1 costs more than #2. That's why a 50/50 blend will also cost more than #2.

#1 is a lighter, more refined fuel. Hence the added cost.

Here in Kentucky...we have diesel or no diesel. There are no options. Their are select stations where you can get agricultural (dyed) diesel. I'm sort of jealous.
Author:  boilermaker2 [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Depending on the source (Texas, Gulf, Illinoise Basin, UAE, etc.) the amount of each product (gasoline, distillate, tar, etc) as a fraction per barrel of crude differs slightly. When they crack it, they can include higher, lighter product in the blend and still retain their label. So, they try to retain the highest volume of everthing for diesel and gasoline. That said, #1 is on the light side of diesel and usually kept in the blend. This, I believe, changes in the fall as more of the #1 is pulled out for home heating oil. Hence, diesel prices historically gone up during the winter as #1 is extracted and yet is put back into the blend to lower the gelling point. Thanks to the EPA, Sulfur has been effectively removed from our fuel. For our vehicles that is a good thing, the 500ppm stuff choked my diesel when I first bought this.

I am rambling. However, if you want to learn more about all of this stuff, analysis and pricing, go here:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/info_glance/petroleum.html On the lower RHS you will see a diesel primer document. You may want to give it a glance.

Boilermaker2
Author:  mikey1273 [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
That's alot of choices, here we get mostly diesel or plain old nasty gas. There is one station near where I work that is more rural but becoming more surburban that sells off road. If you want to even try to put that in your tank you would have to fill cans and take then home and dump it in. you would not be allowed to fill your Jeep at the station with dyed fuel... they would at least stop you for sure.

I doubt the risk of getting caught with dyed fuel in our CRD is very great..... there aren't many of them and I know the police are not very aware they exist. I know they aren't aware of diesel Jeeps here. I had a cop see me out one night kinda late. It was right after the begining of the month so he must have been looking for expired stickers. Mine was good but he tailed me anyway. after a mile or so he pulled me over and goes into asking for the usual papers. I ask why I'm being pulled over, I was not aware I broke any law. by then I have the stuff out to hand him. He says your vehicle is registered to an address up the road and you don't have an emmisson sticker that is required for this area. I tell him "Well this is a Diesel powered vehicle and is exempt from emmissions testing. Can't you hear the engine running and tell its a diesel?" He says "yes now that you mention it it does sound different." I pointed to the fuel gauge and where it says "Diesel Only" and offered to show the fuel cap that also was labeled the same. he declinced and said I was free to go.

I doubt there is much risk of me getting caught with dyed off-road here. I would have to be in a wreak and have the fuel leaking out to surely have anyone think to check.
Author:  boilermaker2 [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
Quote:
He says your vehicle is registered to an address up the road and you don't have an emmisson sticker that is required for this area.


:shock: WOW :shock: Stickers (papers) not in order?! Statism anyone? But then again, any level of tyranny is acceptable if it is all about saving the children or the environment.

And I thought we had enough police here with nothing to do here :banghead:

:shock: WOW :shock: Are they really saving the environment with this misapplied and halfhearted enforcement (diesel exempt?) or are they just keeping you folks in line?
Author:  mikey1273 [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4 Diesel selections at the pump?
boilermaker2 wrote:
Quote:
He says your vehicle is registered to an address up the road and you don't have an emmisson sticker that is required for this area.


:shock: WOW :shock: Stickers (papers) not in order?! Statism anyone? But then again, any level of tyranny is acceptable if it is all about saving the children or the environment.

And I thought we had enough police here with nothing to do here :banghead:

:shock: WOW :shock: Are they really saving the environment with this misapplied and halfhearted enforcement (diesel exempt?) or are they just keeping you folks in line?



Yeah I know the Police that Patrol my borough are a Regional Police that do a lot of Surburban and Rural townships. For the most part crime is low where they patrol and they seem to not have real crimes to stop or solve very often so they spend too much time looking for speeders, outdated registration inspection and emmision stickers cus they can give you a ticket for it and make some money for the local govenment.......in other words they also pull duty to bring in more taxes. Less than a mile away in the actual city of York they have no time for that BS.


I can't say why Diesel vehicles registered in PA are exempt.... best guess is they have decided there aren't enough or they don't want to come up with a test and amounts of acceptable emmissions outputs for diesels.

OH and if you get a ticket here and look at what the fine is and then the total after all the things they add its maddening. a $25 fine is over $100 after you add the Judicial computer project fee, the Catastrofic loss fund fee, EMS service fee, and a few others I can't come up with off the top of my head.

I even got pulled over in the Jeep once because the officer thought I was speeding just because I pulled away from a traffic light fast and was ahead of other cars. I was actually under the 35 mph limit and was watching my speed cus I saw him sitting there watching traffic. Since he could not find anything to ticket me for and had no proof I was speeding he wasn't even able to issue a fine or even a warning card. Statism :BINGO:
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