Sounds like the timing is off
BTW, is there a sticker under the hood indicating F37, have you tested your shift point speeds?
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| F37 and MY CRD issues http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56131 |
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| Author: | jinstall [ Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | F37 and MY CRD issues |
So ever since the CRD went in for the Timing Belt swap, it has serious delay off the line and once the boost rolls up the thing leaps forward but still feels like it is being held back. Since this is the one and only dealer in th eUS that has touched it, I wonder if they did the F37 on it and this is now my issue? Also it has developed a black cloud that comes out of the teilpipe everytime I step on the throttle from any stop no matter how much. IF they did do the F37 I will have them remove it as the KJ has run flawlessly for 100,000 miles with out it. Any other possible ideas? Oh and they installed the new fuel filter head after they said they could not start mine after sitting 5 days. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
The F37 cannot be removed unless you get the Green Diesel TCM flash but F37 shouldn't contribute to your symptoms. F37 takes a bit off your torque and raises the final shift/lock up from about 58 mph to 62 but doesn't do anything that would increase smoke. Given the noticable hesitation and black smoke right after a timing belt swap I'd wonder if the TB install is one tooth off so to speak. I don't know how to check but hopefully someone else on the forum does. |
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| Author: | flman [ Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Sounds like the timing is off BTW, is there a sticker under the hood indicating F37, have you tested your shift point speeds? |
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| Author: | jinstall [ Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Still shifts at about 62. No stickers as the dealer in Germany did it and then removed it after I asked them to. This has been the ONLY dealer to touch it outside of Germany. I was wondering about the 1 tooth off but I thought the clearances were so tight that it could not be done without damage? |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
jinstall wrote: Still shifts at about 62. No stickers as the dealer in Germany did it and then removed it after I asked them to. This has been the ONLY dealer to touch it outside of Germany. I was wondering about the 1 tooth off but I thought the clearances were so tight that it could not be done without damage? You can be one tooth off and not have any contact issues,you can go up to maybe 8-10 teeth off before any contact can occur.Very easy to end up one tooth off,why I always rotate the crank by hand for a full 720 degrees and make sure the timing marks line back up,then put the min back together so I can safely start the engine(2nd person actually starting as I'm watching the engine) and let it run for about 20-30 seconds.Then after running I for the 3rd time line up the timing marks for a 3rd time before completely assembling.Some techs are not as anal as I am though.Continental makes a very good timing belt kit that has marks on the belt that lines up to the timing marks making it idiot proof,sadly they don't make kits for every engine. |
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
flman wrote: Sounds like the timing is off BTW, is there a sticker under the hood indicating F37, have you tested your shift point speeds? X2 on cam timing since the injection timing is triggered by the crank angle sensor (generic name) on the crank. With either one of the two cams one tooth off, I am surprised you can even drive your CRD. There is a way (Most Engines) to check by removing the valve cover and look at either the cam lobes or rockers and rotate the engine so both the intake valve and exhaust valve on #4 are open the same (this is called the Valve Rock Method to check valve timing). Now look at the timing mark on the dampener or flywheel and if it is not within 2 degrees, the cam timing is off. If there are no marks to show TDC, pull either #1 or #4 injector and put a probe from a dial indicator into the bore and set the marker to the highest point, if this does not match up with the position where both valves on the opposite cylinder are open, the cam timing is off. I would ask the dealer to check the work with a different tech or pay another dealer to do it. There are other options besides GDE for TCM. BG Chrysler has one, there is the pre -F37 TCM if you can get one out of a wreck. The Pre-F37 flash you can get from SunCoast if you talk to Ron, pay up first and ship your TCM to BG Chrysler in Warren, MI. And hope you do not get a Junk TCM like Joe did and have to do a lot of extra work to get nothing. Also if you had any ECM or TCM tune, the dealer could have wiped it out. My experimental TCM, another option. I transplanted a TCM out of another Mopar rig and retrained it to work in the CRD. First with stock Torque Converter and tune, then SunCoast Transgo, then added the InMotion Stage 2. The SunCoast, Transgo, and InMotion Stage 2 tune it works the best so far for this TCM. I can hold 5th lock at 48 MPH slowing down and kick into 5th lock at 53MPH. No bad vibration chaddering or other problem, I just can't tow a big load (4000#+) under 60MPH with out turning off the overdrive. What I like is that I can control the shifting with my right foot much better than the F-37 Bean Counter Engineered TCM which all most all of us think sucks. |
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| Author: | flman [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
tjkj2002 wrote: Continental makes a very good timing belt kit that has marks on the belt that lines up to the timing marks making it idiot proof,sadly they don't make kits for every engine. HMM, might be a good idea to mark the old belt to the timing marks, and use it as a template to the new belt. Stretch them side by side with the cogs aligned and match the marks with a white marking pen. 
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| Author: | flman [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
jinstall wrote: Still shifts at about 62. No stickers as the dealer in Germany did it and then removed it after I asked them to. This has been the ONLY dealer to touch it outside of Germany. I was wondering about the 1 tooth off but I thought the clearances were so tight that it could not be done without damage? Then you have always had F37 if that is the case. |
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| Author: | Joe Romas [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
warp2diesel wrote: There are other options besides GDE for TCM. BG Chrysler has one, there is the pre -F37 TCM if you can get one out of a wreck. The Pre-F37 flash you can get from SunCoast if you talk to Ron, pay up first and ship your TCM to BG Chrysler in Warren, MI. And hope you do not get a Junk TCM like Joe did and have to do a lot of extra work to get nothing. Warp. My "JUNK" tcm worked fine before sending it to Michigan  Ron graciously refunded my money but so far my requests to Dave at BG to return my TCM have been ignored I'm going to call him again Monday  Joe |
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| Author: | jinstall [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Just a quick addition: Everything is stock on the engine except the Samco sport hoses and the Maganflow SS cat-back. Everything else is OEM on the engine. One other observation is that at certain times the air intake is getting louder at idle, almost like the exhaust is coming back through the airfilter. Not all the time just when it is sitting and it is louder than the exhaust. |
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| Author: | CATCRD [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
I would check that both of the samco boost hoses are on tight. Maybe the dealership removed one and didn't get it back on right. |
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| Author: | GreenDieselEngineering [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
jinstall, Unplug the mass air flow sensor to shut off the EGR and see if the lag issue disappears and drive ability improves. The dealer may have reflashed your engine ECU with the F31 (I believe??) TSB, this lowers the allowable torque of the engine. It is possible the engine was not timed properly, but if it is out too far the cam and crank sensors will not synchronize and the engine would not inject fuel. |
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| Author: | Turbo Tim [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
There is another way to check the cam timing after the belt replacement without tearing the whole thing apart. One could just take out the two plugs on the side of the valve covers, and then rotate the engine very slowly while at the same time using something like a size 3/16 drill bit being pushed into the hole in the valve cover. When the hole in the cover lines up with the hole in the cam, and the drill bit goes in about a ½ inch, at that same time, the hole in the other valve cover will (should) be lined up also. The final check would be that the 3rd hole on the passenger side of the engine, down behind the turbo, that one should also be lined up with the flex plate hole. These are the alignment locations that you use when changing the timing belt. (See the write up by GDE). I checked mine before and after the timing belt change. |
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| Author: | jinstall [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Cool this one I like a lot. I will have to try this in the morning as I have to get ready to go to a wedding. |
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Joe Romas wrote: warp2diesel wrote: There are other options besides GDE for TCM. BG Chrysler has one, there is the pre -F37 TCM if you can get one out of a wreck. The Pre-F37 flash you can get from SunCoast if you talk to Ron, pay up first and ship your TCM to BG Chrysler in Warren, MI. And hope you do not get a Junk TCM like Joe did and have to do a lot of extra work to get nothing. Warp. My "JUNK" tcm worked fine before sending it to Michigan Ron graciously refunded my money but so far my requests to Dave at BG to return my TCM have been ignored I'm going to call him again Monday Joe Ron is a regular business guy that takes care of his customers. Dave at BG Chrysler is a very cranky retired engineer. Dave may not have been able to connect to your spare TCM if one of the pins was not working right, but hook it up it would work OK, just a thought. Hope something works out. |
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| Author: | Joe Romas [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
warp2diesel wrote: Dave may not have been able to connect to your spare TCM if one of the pins was not working right, but hook it up it would work OK, just a thought. Hope something works out. That's why I want to get it back 
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Tell Dave your Lawyer wants it back so he can go after the Junk Yard and not drag BG Chrysler into the mess.  That may get his attention, via Registered Letter. Then your TCM might get shipped very fast. |
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| Author: | Joe Romas [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
warp2diesel wrote: Tell Dave your Lawyer wants it back so he can go after the Junk Yard and not drag BG Chrysler into the mess. That may get his attention, via Registered Letter. Then your TCM might get shipped very fast. Such things are not worth the aggravation but I'll remember this before going further with a TCM flash 
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| Author: | jinstall [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Back on topic, Now they say the EGR is bad so today I am going to pull it and clean it and then try it over the next few days. If it does not improve, I will buy a new EGR and install it along with the #2 Glow Plug. Also the dealer said they hooked up and read that the cam gears are in time. I think I will still check them. |
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| Author: | jinstall [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: F37 and MY CRD issues |
Sweet my Ross VAGCOM works on the CRD as a reader and clearing codes!! P0101 MAF (G60) Implausible Signal P1263 Manufacturer Specific code I just installed a new MAF |
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