tjkj2002 wrote:
Every single engine,diesels included,ignite the fuel/air mixture a few degrees before TDC anyways.
Yeah, but I think it will ignite in a high compression diesel more then "a few degrees before TDC"?
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alky injection question. |
Is alky injection ever used on a diesel engine. I have it on my Grand National and I know the science behind it for a gas engine but is it an option for a diesel engine? |
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| Author: | dgeist [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
Yes, it's pretty common in heavily modified "enthusiast" turbodiesels. Does the same thing, reduce intake and exhaust temps in order to allow more boost safely. Dan |
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| Author: | mustang_gt_350 [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
Keep in mind that diesels are a compression ignition engine. With that said remember that anything that goes into the engine that is flammable is subject to ignition while on the compression stroke BEFORE the fuel actually gets there from the injector (meaning timing has nothing to do with this since its not controlled like the injection even). Resulting in increased cylinder pressure Early, and sometimes before TDC= higher stress on rods/crank/wrist-pin and so on. Most of the time your safe if your using a reasonable amount of water:alk But the higher you go the more risk you will take. So keep this in mind when/if you do add it on. A 20hp increase on a 160hp engine is huge compared to a 20hp increase on a 250hp engine. I will probably never run water/meth. If i ever do anything it will be WATER only and it will never be put on the jeep I'll keep that for my puller, I'll let the fuel make the HP not an additive, although you will gain HP with water alone due to the cooling of the intake temps along with the extra oxygen thats in the water being injected. Has anyone installed any water/meth kits on their crd's? |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
mustang_gt_350 wrote: Keep in mind that diesels are a compression ignition engine. With that said remember that anything that goes into the engine that is flammable is subject to ignition while on the compression stroke BEFORE the fuel actually gets there from the injector (meaning timing has nothing to do with this since its not controlled like the injection even). Resulting in increased cylinder pressure Early, and sometimes before TDC= higher stress on rods/crank/wrist-pin and so on. Most of the time your safe if your using a reasonable amount of water:alk But the higher you go the more risk you will take. So keep this in mind when/if you do add it on. A 20hp increase on a 160hp engine is huge compared to a 20hp increase on a 250hp engine. I will probably never run water/meth. If i ever do anything it will be WATER only and it will never be put on the jeep I'll keep that for my puller, I'll let the fuel make the HP not an additive, although you will gain HP with water alone due to the cooling of the intake temps along with the extra oxygen thats in the water being injected. Has anyone installed any water/meth kits on their crd's? Every single engine,diesels included,ignite the fuel/air mixture a few degrees before TDC anyways. |
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| Author: | mustang_gt_350 [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
[/quote] Every single engine,diesels included,ignite the fuel/air mixture a few degrees before TDC anyways.[/quote] its not even worth my time..... |
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| Author: | flman [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
tjkj2002 wrote: Every single engine,diesels included,ignite the fuel/air mixture a few degrees before TDC anyways. Yeah, but I think it will ignite in a high compression diesel more then "a few degrees before TDC"?
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| Author: | jinstall [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
see I knew the glow plugs did something
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| Author: | dkenny [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
if but alky..you me mean alcohol injection..as in methanol.. sure its possible..just the Cummins forums look for performance in 03 and later engines.. my dumb question of the day is why? a liberty is LAST car I would want to race.. not that I would want to race a dodge pickup either..but some want power/HP/Torque for pulling..a form of racing..but not at speeds. you could also think about propane injection.. but I still get caught on WHY? are you racing a Liberty? -dkenny |
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| Author: | warp2diesel [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
Propane injection is just more fuel added, nothing more. On the OLD diesels, they had injectors that are very crude by today's standards and could not atomize the fuel very well and make use of all the oxygen, so the fuel had to be cut way back to reduce smoke, adding propane would provide extra fuel to make use of the oxygen with out adding a lot of smoke so the horse power and torque could be increased. That is why it was called a "Torque Topper". Since our CRDs have much better common rail injectors, turbo chargers, and inter-coolers; you are better off investing in a Tune and exhaust enhancements. Besides where are you going to mount a propane cylinder on a CRD? |
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| Author: | dkenny [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
if by alky..you me mean alcohol injection..as in methanol.. sure its possible..just the Cummins forums look for performance in 03 and later engines.. my dumb question of the day is why? a liberty is LAST car I would want to race.. not that I would want to race a dodge pickup either..but some want power/HP/Torque for pulling..a form of racing..but not at speeds. you could also think about propane injection.. but I still get caught on WHY? are you racing a Liberty? -dkenny |
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| Author: | TennesseeCRD [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
I will not use it on the CRD. I have no reason too. I just thought it would be a good conversation piece. Turns out I was right.  . I run "off the shelf" denatured alcohol (alky) in my GN and I can tell a huge difference when it kicks in even without turning the boost up. I love the stuff in that car. I just didn't know if it was even an option in a diesel. Thanks for the responses guys.
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
jinstall wrote: see I knew the glow plugs did something Your point of of ignition is when the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber,your pump is "timed" like a old distributer on carbed gas engines. Real diesels don't have glowplugs. |
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| Author: | mag03kj [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
tjkj2002 wrote: jinstall wrote: see I knew the glow plugs did something Your point of of ignition is when the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber,your pump is "timed" like a old distributer on carbed gas engines. Real diesels don't have glowplugs. Really? Bc the way I see it you've loved the Fords 7.3 and new 6.7 both have glowplugs. 
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
mag03kj wrote: tjkj2002 wrote: jinstall wrote: see I knew the glow plugs did something Your point of of ignition is when the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber,your pump is "timed" like a old distributer on carbed gas engines. Real diesels don't have glowplugs. Really? Bc the way I see it you've loved the Fords 7.3 and new 6.7 both have glowplugs. The 6.7 has no glowplugs. |
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| Author: | dkenny [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
add my DD 8.2L turbo to the no glow plugs list..and no intake heaters like the Cummins either.. NOTHING!! it used to have a block heater but the first time I tried to use it I got lots of sparks..then I tried to find where is connected into the block..I would have to pull the engine to fix..yep..its still broken..if its that cold..i just stay home..with wd40 its good to start to about 15F. if the biodiesel/diesel blend is right. -dkenny |
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| Author: | Sir Sam [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
tjkj2002 wrote: your pump is "timed" like a old distributer on carbed gas engines. Ya no.
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| Author: | MrMopar64 [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
Every light duty diesel engine -- Duramax, Ford 6.7L Scorpion, VW 2.0L/3.0L, BMW 3.0L, Mercedes OM642 3.0L (I'm sure I forgot something...) all have glowplugs. Only the Cummins 5.9/6.7 uses the grid heater exclusively in this segment. |
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| Author: | flman [ Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
MrMopar64 wrote: Every light duty diesel engine -- Duramax, Ford 6.7L Scorpion, VW 2.0L/3.0L, BMW 3.0L, Mercedes OM642 3.0L (I'm sure I forgot something...) all have glowplugs. Only the Cummins 5.9/6.7 uses the grid heater exclusively in this segment. My John Deere with the 3 cyl Yanmar uses the intake grid heater so I can say I have at least one real diesel. The other 4 wanna be diesels are gassers in disguise 
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| Author: | GreenDieselEngineering [ Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
What constitutes a real diesel? It seems a 'real' diesel is a medium speed diesel or lower speed diesel based on the comments. The smaller automotive diesels are high speed units and relatively new to us on this side of the ocean. New in the sense that most have not been exposed to them. low speed diesel peak rpm ~1500 medium speed diesel peak rpm ~3300 high speed diesel peak rpm~ 4500-5500 Why the difference? The bearing circumference inside the engine is a main determining factor in max rpm. Bigger bearings/journals equals lower max rpm. Bigger bearings means more torque capability. "Real" is arbitrary and determined by what we know and are used to. |
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| Author: | jinstall [ Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alky injection question. |
"Real" diesels were built before 1970. You will want one in case of EW. |
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