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Covers on grills??
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58149		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  orionpps [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Covers on grills??
What are the blankets used for on CRD over the grill?? I'm assuming it has something to do with cold weather and engine temp??
Author:  fastRob [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
I have one with snaps and a zipper.
Cardboard is better.
And cheaper.
Author:  orionpps [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
yes..but what are they used for?? what the purpose??
Author:  warp2diesel [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
Reduces air flowing through the radiator and engine compartment. Less heat loss from cold, more efficient in cold weather.
Author:  orionpps [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
I see..so if you use cardboad..you just put it over the radiator?? does it not over heat?? efficent as in MPG?? I have problems with mine getting the heater warm on the way to work...so that is what these are for?? hmmm and ideas where to get one?
Author:  warp2diesel [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
orionpps wrote:
I see..so if you use cardboad..you just put it over the radiator?? does it not over heat?? efficent as in MPG?? I have problems with mine getting the heater warm on the way to work...so that is what these are for?? hmmm and ideas where to get one?

I blocked all of the area behind the grill and noticed there is still 1/3 of the radiator, intercooler, AC condenser, Trans cooler getting air from under the bumper. Take the cardboard out in the spring, or it will get soaked and turn into one big spit ball.
Author:  DynoPax [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
1st off, make sure you are not having issues with your t-stat. At normal op temp, it should be a tick under mid-level... As for improving mileage during cold weather, a couple of pointers were provided by Keith, from GDE:

Removing the air duct from grill to airbox (I did and also blocked the grill opening for air duct)

Partially or completely block front grill. Start at 50% blocking, adjust according to weather and/or engine and mileage behavior (I bought a small coroplast sheet, cut it to pieces actually fitting all 7 openings and tie-wrap them to the grill)

The trouble with these small inserts is figuring out a way to make them easy to install or remove. Tie-wrapping is a bit cumbersome and not practical...
Author:  Radman [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
I slide a piece of plastic between the grill and radiator from the lower opening in the bumper. I actually use a black 'Crazy Carpet' $2.99 and cut it to size. No worries if it gets wet as it is plastic and does not even show. Stealthy :P
Author:  sota [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
I know this is a diesel thread/forum section but does anyone (not?) recommend doing this with the gassers? I haven't had a problem so far with getting normal engine temps (at least according to the gauge) or getting heat in the passenger compartment relatively quickly after startup and driving but am curious if I should(n't) be doing it. it's been in the 20F range here the past 3 weeks.
Author:  OldSkull [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
Sota if you ever got a problem with your gaser this mean your thermostat is shot in wide open position and you need a new one. I only seen radiator cover on gaser in the great North

Here a place to buy a front cover for those with great taste and a big wallet :mrgreen:
http://www.gofia.com/index.cfm?pageID=14&productSeries=2&acc=1&model=181&year=2005&step=3

And for the poor guy or the smart and ingeneous cheap old dog with bad taste like ME! :goink:
This fantastic marvelous solution....
Image
Author:  sota [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
right.... :SOMBRERO:

I cardboard one of my other cars.... it's notorious for taking forever to heat up in the winter.
Author:  salden77 [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
if you use cardboard from a beer box it will last longer than normal cardboard and not wad up like a big spitball
Author:  painemann [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
[quote=
Here a place to buy a front cover for those with great taste and a big wallet :mrgreen:
http://www.gofia.com/index.cfm?pageID=14&productSeries=2&acc=1&model=181&year=2005&step=3

Image[/quote]


I Want One!
Author:  ATXKJ [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
post elections - grab the campaign signs - they're corrugated plastic.
if you cut to fit and spray back, zip tie and they look great - and they're rainproof.
Author:  iakj11 [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
DynoPax wrote:
Partially or completely block front grill. Start at 50% blocking, adjust according to weather and/or engine and mileage behavior (I bought a small coroplast sheet, cut it to pieces actually fitting all 7 openings and tie-wrap them to the grill)

The trouble with these small inserts is figuring out a way to make them easy to install or remove. Tie-wrapping is a bit cumbersome and not practical...


Thought I'd resurrect one of these threads on grill covers. Lots of good options out there, but here's what I came up with - used a couple feet of black rubber floor runner from a big box hardware store (us$2.99/linear foot) and cut out some inserts slightly wider than the grill openings with small notches as shown in the photo below. These are durable and are easy to remove and reinstall - they just kind of get wedged in. I ran five last year in the coldest times and never lost one. This year, I have the v6 air box installed and run all seven when it's well below freezing.
Image
Image
Author:  krb [ Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
Looks good. I like.
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
A word on the O.E. CRD engine temperature gauges and O.E. CRD engine thermostat assemblies:

The engine temperature gauges are notoriously inaccurate an non-linear.... during operation when the engine is fully warmed up, the needle will point to a shade on the left side of the middle, (vertical), mark.

Testing with an OBDII reader has indicated that the engine operating temperature can be anywhere between 170 degrees Fahrenheit to just over 200 degrees Fahrenheit when the needle is at this normal position... this is most certainly not accurate, and therefore can not be relied upon to gauge if the engine is running at an optimal temperature. You can only use the O.E. gauge as a guide to tell you if the engine is overheating or if the thermostat valve has failed; nothing more. If you really want to know if your engine is running at an optimal temperature, install an accurate engine temperature gauge or use an OBDII reader to check it.

Because North American Liberty CRDs are subject to EPA NOx emissions regulations, the valve in the O.E. thermostat assembly is set to open at a lower temperature here in Canada and the U.S. than in any other market around the world, (North American CRDs have a 176 degree valve, while everywhere else the valve is set to open at 195 degrees). Ask any diesel engine technician/engineer if running a modern diesel engine at 170 - 176 degrees is optimal for maximum fuel economy, power production or reliability; that person will likely look at you with a crooked eyebrow. :roll:

Given all of this information - which can be verified independently - it is easy to conclude that relying on the O.E. engine temperature gauge alone to tell you that the engine is at a proper operating temperature is not good enough as your engine is likely to be running at no more than 176 degrees, (assuming a healthy cooling system).

Numerous attempts have been made to modify the O.E. housing to be serviceable and have a higher opening temperature thermostat valve installed. A professionally made serviceable upgrade assembly with CNC machined housings has also been developed. The North American market CRD engines running too cool is a well-known problem; running any engine too cool will contribute to engine oil fouling prematurely, the engine clogging out with pollutants, poor fuel economy and power production.

Having a "winter front" covering your grill can help as much less cold air can flow past the radiator; thereby helping to keep engine temperatures up. However, just like DynoPax suggested, some experimentation is needed to adjust the amount of coverage over the grill with monitoring of engine temperatures, (remember to NOT rely on the O.E. gauge), via an accurate engine temperature gauge, an OBDII reader or some other device.

I am aware that there is an air dam under the bumper that still allows air flow when covering up the grill. It is probably enough, but it is common practice to allow some air directly through the grill as negative air pressure on the mechanical cooling fans have contributed to premature bearing wear in the past on older vehicles that have winter fronts and are running mechanical cooling fans.

Jeff Bauer
Author:  PZKW108 [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
"Testing with an OBDII reader has indicated that the engine operating temperature can be anywhere between 170 degrees Fahrenheit to just over 200 degrees Fahrenheit when the needle is at this normal position... this is most certainly not accurate, and therefore can not be relied upon to gauge if the engine is running at an optimal temperature. You can only use the O.E. gauge as a guide to tell you if the engine is overheating or if the thermostat valve has failed; nothing more. If you really want to know if your engine is running at an optimal temperature, install an accurate engine temperature gauge or use an OBDII reader to check it."

You are right Jeff. I've been monitoring my engine temp for a while with the obd2 and I can say 3 things about the OE gauge

1 It make you think it warming up faster than it really is.

2 around normal operating (a tad before 12oclock) temp it seem to be stable but it can be anywhere between 170 and 200.

3 as soon as you hit 210 (around first mark past 12oclock) then it look like they want to make sure you know you are about to overheat , the needle just go nuts...

So looks like the OE gauge is made inaccurate in purpose.
Author:  TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Covers on grills??
PZKW108 wrote:
"Testing with an OBDII reader has indicated that the engine operating temperature can be anywhere between 170 degrees Fahrenheit to just over 200 degrees Fahrenheit when the needle is at this normal position... this is most certainly not accurate, and therefore can not be relied upon to gauge if the engine is running at an optimal temperature. You can only use the O.E. gauge as a guide to tell you if the engine is overheating or if the thermostat valve has failed; nothing more. If you really want to know if your engine is running at an optimal temperature, install an accurate engine temperature gauge or use an OBDII reader to check it."

You are right Jeff. I've been monitoring my engine temp for a while with the obd2 and I can say 3 things about the OE gauge

1 It make you think it warming up faster than it really is.

2 around normal operating (a tad before 12oclock) temp it seem to be stable but it can be anywhere between 170 and 200.

3 as soon as you hit 210 (around first mark past 12oclock) then it look like they want to make sure you know you are about to overheat , the needle just go nuts...

So looks like the OE gauge is made inaccurate in purpose.




Thank you for your efforts in this regard, PZKW108... I am not driving either of the family's CRD vehicles right now, and someone monitoring engine temperatures continuously with an OBDII is helpful to illustrate what I am trying to say here.

Given the level of duplicity we all have experienced from Daimler-Chrysler, and now Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, I can totally believe a scenario where the manufacturer does its best to hide the fact that our CRD engines are not running at a proper, (read that as high enough), operating temperatures.

The responses from various members to this thread, (and many other threads regarding CRD engine operating temperatures and the O.E. temperature gauge), would clearly indicate that they think everything is O.K. when the O.E. temperature gauge needle is "a tad before 12 o'clock", when in fact that it is NOT O.K. WAKE UP, LOSTJEEPS CRD MEMBERS; STOP USING THE O.E. TEMPERATURE GAUGE FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN BALLPARK ESTIMATES.

What strikes me as scary is that the Environmental Protection Agency has SO MUCH power and control over automobile manufacturers. The EPA can demand emission standards that are so rigorous that to implement them will require changes to the fundamental operational requirements of all internal combustion engines, and diesel engines in particular.

In this case that fundamental operational requirement is engine operating temperature. Any first year automotive engineer specializing in engine design will tell you that to squeeze as much power and fuel economy out of an engine as possible, you have to RAISE engine operating temperatures as much as is safely possible, (we owe our thanks to the chemical engineers in the lubrication industry for their continuous development of better and better engine oils for this). The specifications of the O.E. engine thermostat clearly shows that to meet the dubious NOx emission requirements of the EPA, Daimler-Chrysler went the other way and LOWERED the engine operating temperatures. Lowering engine temperatures had the desired effect of also lowing NOx emissions, but the end result is a giant headache for CRD owners in the form of lost fuel economy, lost power, and increased operational costs and repairs.

Ironically, the EPA mandate of lowering the world's carbon footprint is also adversely affected; thereby exposing the folly of the EPA treating internal combustion automobiles and transport trucks as "the enemy" and their lust for the bragging rights amongst government environmental agencies as having the BEST ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS IN THE WORLD. It is apparent to anyone taking some time to do research on their own that the EPA either has not done their homework on this issue, or has always known about the outcomes and do not care that their goals have adverse environmental impacts, as well as the obvious problems for consumers, both domestic and commercial.

Jeff Bauer
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