I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:35 am

My Liby has a rough idle problem. This started a few days ago when all of a sudden the motor started shaking really bad. I was driving. The noise is more of a knocking noise that comes from the engine bay. I did a bit of research on the forum and I decided to the the EGR cleaning. Now that its done it still runs rough. The codes it gave me at Auto Zone was and still is P0101 which is supposedly the MAF Sensor or the EGR Valve or Loose boost hose. I know for a fact that the MAF sensor is bad because this is the 2nd 1 I have replaced. The Liby also smokes up a storm in the back. THey get dirty very easy and not cheap, 140$ a piece I believe. Guys, please, please help me out. I'm located in GA and the only way around there parts is if u have a good running car. Thank U and hope to hear some good news soon.

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:23 am

I forgot to say that I did use SeaFoam engine cleaner to clean the engine for this last oil change and i put in about 4oz of cleaner in the fresh oil to clean it out good until my next oil change. I'm not sure if this might be my trouble and hope nothing is off internally. I thought that might be a glow plug problem but they shut off after a short while unline a regular gas powered car.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:42 am

Welcome to LOST

Don't know about the knock - I had the boost hose blow and it had lots of smoke, no power but idled fine.
the P101 is Mass Air Flow and that's only used to determine EGR mix.

however low oil pressure won't flag until the engine is dead (sensor's next to the pump)

is this when cold? hot? - how many miles? and engine tweaks? (if it's over 100K did it get a timing belt change?)

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:45 pm

Thank You for welcoming me

. The engine runs bad at start up and during operation. The timing belt has not been done yet on the count that it cost around 700$ do get everything swapped out properly. I have a 2.5 in lift and Mud Terrain tires on it, but no engine mods as of yet. It has 106k on the meter. I hope its not the timing but if it is i'll have to get some parts together, maby change the belt and a few more things but my budget dosent allow me to spend 700$ right now.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:15 pm

Have you cleaned the MAP sensor?

How to clean Sensor.
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=22630

Regarding Seafoam.....

Seafoam can safely be used as a diesel engine cleaner when it is mixed with the motor oil.

Seafoam will cause problems if it is poured in the intake vaccum lines of a diesel motor and especially not good to do on the CRD motor.

I don't believe that your lack of timely timimg belt maintenance has anything to do with your engine surge.

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:29 pm

Hey racertracer, yes i did clean the map sensor a while back but it defiantly wouldent hurt to clean it again. I think i cleaned it around 87k and now im at 106k so its 19k overdude i guess. As far as the SeaFoam i def didnt add it to the vac lines but maby because its smoking so bad it might have gotten in there?idk but I hope not. I wouldent guess that the timing has much to do with it, but the engine dosent really surge i guess just loud knocking sound. It makes me cringe every time i crank it up. What do u think about glow plugs? It runs rough when its cold of course but it still runs rough idle when hot too. I'm not sure if the glow plugs stay slightly on for the remainder of my trip or if they shut off completely. I know that they shut off after a little while and the compression keeps going as long as the engine is turning.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:36 pm

DIESEL TROUBLESHOOTING BLACK SMOKE

Black smoke is usually a signal that there's too much fuel, not enough air or injector pump timing is off. One of the most common causes of this condition is an air inlet restriction. The cause may be a dirty air filter, a collapsed intake hose or even an exhaust restriction.

A bad or sticky injector could be the cause of the loud knocking, a bad injector could dump too much fuel into a cylinder, pull the fuel filter, empty it (in a safe manor), fill it with your favorite Diesel Injector cleaner lubricator, triple the dose in the tanks, let it run for about 45-60 seconds, shut it off and let it set for as long as you can, couple hours at the very least and see if that helps.

Another cause maybe that you have a batch of bad fuel or gasolineis in the mix.... do you know for sure that the tank was filled with diesel fuel? A quick check is to smell under the filler cap.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:10 pm

you might be able to check the fuel - by getting a glass jar and drain fuel from the water sensor in the bottom of the fuel filter. if it's got water it'll settle in the bottom, contamination will be visible and if there a gas smell - it's obvious.

GoodCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:54 pm

First thing to always check in the fuel and fuel system.
1) Is there fuel in the tank and is it good fuel? Don't trust your fuel gauge. I have found fueling stations to drop used engine oil into the Diesel tanks. If the fuel pump is slow when filling your tank go to another station. That is a sign that something is clogging up their filter if they are using one. If it can clog their filters it will clog yours!

2) Did you check for air in your fuel filter. Pump the primer by hand until it gets hard, then open the bleeder fitting to release any trapped air. If you don't have any bubbles in the fuel stream your good.

IF you find the above two steps ok, then you need to have your fuel pressure checked. This is where a good mechanic is needed. You may have a restriction in your fuel delivery system. Could be in the tank, lines, filter, pump, or clogged injector. Clogged injectors may have to be removed and cleaned or replaced depending or how bad they are. A more common problem is the fuel pressure regulator or fuel pressure sensor going bad. On this system the fuel pressure regulator if removed must be replaced. If it got clogged you will have to just replace it. The fuel pressure sensor can be removed and cleaned then reinstalled.

I'm hoping it is a fuel problem and not a leaking head gasket. Do you have white smoke when you start it up cold which seems to lessen or go away when the engine warms up. If so pressure test your coolant system. Also look and see if you have air bubbles showing inside your coolant surge tank.

The knock you are hearing may be the pilot injection not happening properly due to a dirty injector. There is so much to check and none of us can see through steel. Good luck.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:34 pm

JeepKJ05,

What's the status?

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:09 am

Guys I think my problem might be a fuel injector that is stuck, i was reading earlier on another post about a loud knock that someone was having and they were saying that they might have a stuck fuel injector. I'm trying to find replacements for injectors online but it seems to be more difficult than i anticipated.

"IF you find the above two steps ok, then you need to have your fuel pressure checked. This is where a good mechanic is needed. You may have a restriction in your fuel delivery system. Could be in the tank, lines, filter, pump, or clogged injector. Clogged injectors may have to be removed and cleaned or replaced depending or how bad they are. A more common problem is the fuel pressure regulator or fuel pressure sensor going bad. On this system the fuel pressure regulator if removed must be replaced. If it got clogged you will have to just replace it. The fuel pressure sensor can be removed and cleaned then reinstalled. " GoodCRD

GoodCRD has a good point about the injector problem or fuel pressure regulator. I think i saw some priceing on the regulator that was around 750$ but I'm hoping thats not the case. I used SeaFoam in the tank to get the system cleand out good and maby this cleaned it out a bit too much lol and made one of the injectors get stuck or go bad, who knows but is there a way to get them really clean without having to get them out and looking at them. Also can anyone tell me where they are located on the engine?

kccrd · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:35 pm **Posts:** 267

Have you checked all your connections at the sensors? I have not had a maf sensor for 5 years but there is another sensor hooked into the air intake I believe behind where the maf sensor is located I unhooked that one once and the engine ran very rough so I immediately plugged it back in and everything returned to normal also check to see if your map sensor still has that little O ring on the shaft and that the sensor is flat against the aluminum that it screws into. Just a thought good luck.

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:57 pm

Well so far I found out that a new injector costs 900$ from the stealership. I went there because i couldn't really find any online but I'll have to see if thats the real problem. Tomorrow or today since its 0306 right now, I will take the injectors out and clean them somehow and see if thats the real problem. I called a guy today about the car and i've gotten advice from him before and he is a diesel specialist. I checked most of the sensors and will do some more checking this evening to see what else i can get my hands dirty with lol I hope i get this fixed soon thow. As far as a leaking head gasket, i dont think its leaking yet.

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:13 pm

Why not have a Bosch certified injector repair station go through the testing.... they'll tell you if it needs replacing, your diesel mechanic may have a source.

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:36 pm

Well guys the worst news came in a few days ago. I took the Jeep in to the dealership for a disgnostic test and they told me that cylinder 1 is misfiring and that I have low compression in it. The mechanic told me that I might as well get a new motor. I told him hez crazy!!! So I think I have to tear down the whole thing and start a rebuild. what dose everyone think? I need a manual or something on the reassembly of the engine or a rebuild kit, etc... if anyone has any information about this can you please help me out. Idk if rebuilding it is my best option but if u have an opinion on what I should do I would apreciate any input. Thank You

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Do you have a CEL for a failed #1 glow plug at all? It may also be a broken rocker arm keeping one of the valves partially open. What was the compression value they measured in psi? We would recommend a borescope through the injector hole to visually inspect the chamber before a teardown.

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:45 pm

I would get a second opinion from a reputable diesel mechanic or a Dodge CRD Sprinter Van repair facility before moving ahead with any work.

uham · **Joined:** Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:48 am **Posts:** 37

One technique the old timers used to determine if low compression is due to the valves or rings is to squirt oil into the cylinder prior to the compression test. If the compression increases it is likely to be the rings. If the compression remains the same then it's probably the valves. Has anyone tried this on a CRD?

jeepkj05 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:57 pm

OK guys, il go for that second opinion

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

Here are some things that come to mind:

Please clean your injectors with Lubro Moly Diesel Purge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3zpwPNijnI shows how it is done on a VW TDI. You run the cleaner directly into your fuel line connected to your fuel filter into your engine so you have pure cleaner not diluted by the diesel. I've done this with great results in my TDIs and so have many other diesel owners.. If you can't get the Lubro Moly Diesel Purge, do the same cleaning using a mixture of 50% diesel blended with 50% biodiesel. Here is another example of how it is done on a VW TDI to help you do the same on our CRD (one line to fuel intake and one line to return line going back into bottle)...if you do have a lift pump, disconnect it electronically. http://www.tdiblog.com/tdi-do-it-yourse ... sel-purge/ You can get a pro version of diesel purge from: http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_ ... ts_id=1971

You could have gotten a bad batch of fuel. If you do the diesel purge you are burning only it and no diesel from your tank and if engine runs better, you got a bad fuel or fuel delivery problem. Every once in a rare while, a fuel delivery truck accidentally pumps gasoline into the diesel tank. How poorly, if at all, it runs is determined by the gas/diesel mixture percentage.

Could the bad idle be caused by a stuck airflow control valve? It acts as a throttle to close intake to force more egr gasses into the intake. I had one fail and I'm almost sure I had the same error code you had thinking it was the EGR when in fact it was the AFCV (not 100% sure hopefully somebody else can chime in here)

DO YOU HAVE A LIFT PUMP or new FUEL HEAD? Air in system can cause a bad idle and cause engine to run very rough (ask me how I know). I'd spend the couple hundred bucks for a new fuel head (a racor is awesome and I change the fuel filter every 50k miles) and a small external lift pump is fairly easy to install. Consider running some clear fuel line from your fuel filter to the fuel inlet line and see if you have air in your fuel. If so, that's probably your problem.

Consider unplugging your battery overnight and turn your headlight switch on to discharge any stored energy in any electronic's capacitors. Next day reinstall connector and see if start improves.

Stupid question for you. How did they determine the cylinder had low compression? Did they do a compression test or was that their educated guess? I am not impressed with dealers and mechanics in general and can you be sure that the cylinder damage (if it exists) wasn't caused by the dealership breaking a glow plug tip when they pulled it out to do the compression test and not taking credit for it.

Did they reuse the glow plug? I would never reinstall a used glow plug when pulling one out for compression test. If they did a compression test, ask to see the recorded value. Did they ensure that the glow plug had no damage on the tip...meaning no part of the tip had broken off and fallen into the engine?

I don't know if its possible but consider switching injectors temporarily and see if the noise comes from another part of the engine.

I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes

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