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Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
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Author:  kevinl [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
I just started having a serious knocking problem. CEL with p0299 came on, inspected and changed a cracked cac hose, cleaned the map and still no change. Any ideas?
Author:  racertracer [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
P0299 = BOOST PRESSURE SENSOR POSITIVE DEVIATION, Turbo issue.

You will need to give more info. The knocking noise isn't something to take lightly.

Check air in fuel issues first.

Can you post a soundbite of the noise?
Author:  kevinl [ Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
see update.
Author:  onthehunt [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
How's the oil level? Most posts like these do not turn out good. Good luck. Hopefully it's a engine mount.
Author:  racertracer [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
Kevinl,

Are you the one that posted on another post of having had your timing belt done by the dealer last month?
Author:  truckbouy2 [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
Check the torque converter bolts.....
Author:  kevinl [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
see update.
Author:  kevinl [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
Update: Things are pointing to actual mechanical issue due to timing. Here is where I need some sound advice. I had the 100k service done at a Jeep dealer (I know, I know....why..why..why?) I did contact the dealer last week and they told me to bring the car in so they can look at it. Now my question, is that the right thing to do or should I bring it to another dealer? The work does come with 12month/12k warranty. If I do being it there, should I/ can I require them to let me be present when they check the timing? Do I let them run it and risk more damage? Should I just ask them for their insurance info and go that route? Should I call my insurance or lawyer? So much to think about and I don't want to get burned. :5SHOTS:. Any advice would be great.
Author:  kevinl [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
help?
Author:  racertracer [ Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
I would alert Chrysler warranty department and ask them how to proceed. Tell them you prefer another qualified dealer look into the matter and that you want to be present during tear down to visually inspect the problem areas.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
What Racer said. I would be VERY cautious about letting the same dealer monkeys back into the engine to have another go-around with it, ESPECIALLY if you are blocked from being within arm's reach of the fender the entire time.

The sum-total of dealer knowledge about these engines wouldn't fill a single page thread on this board, compared to what we all know about these engines.

I will say this much - If it has moved under its own power already since having the belt done... You probably don't have a catastrophic timing disaster. Bad things on these engines tend to happen VERY quickly and not at all politely. If it goes bad, it goes REALLY bad. So noises are to be addressed promptly, but if you drove it more than a few miles after the belt job, it is probably just that the timing has slipped a bit, but not enough to cause piston to meet valve.

Please note - This is an interference engine. Piston and valve CANNOT occupy the same space at the same time, and the rocker arms are designed to fail if this happens. If the timing slips more than about a single tooth (single tooth causes rough running and more noise / clatter) then bad things start to happen. If they did not properly tension the belt (it can be a bit tricky) and set the torque values correctly (The tensioner gets specific torque that Green Diesel Engineering has CORRECTLY on their directions) then the timing can slip.

What all this means is that you do need the front cover to come back off, and the timing to be re-verified WITH THE PINS and the original factory witness marks on the crank, cams, and fuel pump. The fuel pump MUST BE TIMED with the engine, or it will also run seriously weird. They might not know that. Hopefully when they did the timing, they didn't unlock the cam gear bolts... That would make things a little more difficult, and would require the pins to properly re-set with the witness marks and belt.
Author:  racertracer [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
kevinl wrote:
help?



KevinL, what's the status, inquiring minds want to know.
Author:  paqclan [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
I believe that I have the same problem ... a loud hammering sound when idling. When I took the air filter off, you could hear it much louder. I believe the timing belt slipped and I may have damaged the rockers.

I live in Albuquerque and I'm trying to decide whether I should tear it down myself (I did it once on a Nissan 200SX) or have someone do it, but it would need to be someone that is familiar with with the CRDs. Does anyone know of someone in the Albuquerque or Rio Rancho area that you would trust to do the timing belt, rockers, water pump, etc. I understand that this can be tricky based on geordi's explanation quoted here:
geordi wrote:
What Racer said. I would be VERY cautious about letting the same dealer monkeys back into the engine to have another go-around with it, ESPECIALLY if you are blocked from being within arm's reach of the fender the entire time.

The sum-total of dealer knowledge about these engines wouldn't fill a single page thread on this board, compared to what we all know about these engines.

I will say this much - If it has moved under its own power already since having the belt done... You probably don't have a catastrophic timing disaster. Bad things on these engines tend to happen VERY quickly and not at all politely. If it goes bad, it goes REALLY bad. So noises are to be addressed promptly, but if you drove it more than a few miles after the belt job, it is probably just that the timing has slipped a bit, but not enough to cause piston to meet valve.

Please note - This is an interference engine. Piston and valve CANNOT occupy the same space at the same time, and the rocker arms are designed to fail if this happens. If the timing slips more than about a single tooth (single tooth causes rough running and more noise / clatter) then bad things start to happen. If they did not properly tension the belt (it can be a bit tricky) and set the torque values correctly (The tensioner gets specific torque that Green Diesel Engineering has CORRECTLY on their directions) then the timing can slip.

What all this means is that you do need the front cover to come back off, and the timing to be re-verified WITH THE PINS and the original factory witness marks on the crank, cams, and fuel pump. The fuel pump MUST BE TIMED with the engine, or it will also run seriously weird. They might not know that. Hopefully when they did the timing, they didn't unlock the cam gear bolts... That would make things a little more difficult, and would require the pins to properly re-set with the witness marks and belt.


Help!
Author:  geordi [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
paqclan wrote:
I believe that I have the same problem ... a loud hammering sound when idling. When I took the air filter off, you could hear it much louder. I believe the timing belt slipped and I may have damaged the rockers.

I live in Albuquerque and I'm trying to decide whether I should tear it down myself (I did it once on a Nissan 200SX) or have someone do it, but it would need to be someone that is familiar with with the CRDs. Does anyone know of someone in the Albuquerque or Rio Rancho area that you would trust to do the timing belt, rockers, water pump, etc. I understand that this can be tricky based on geordi's explanation quoted here:

Help!


How strong do you feel mechanically? How long has the CRD been making this noise / how many miles? Was the timing belt done at all? How many miles on the CRD (not that it matters as much anymore - you are DUE just based on the age)
Author:  paqclan [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
How strong do you feel mechanically?
I've done a timing belt on a Nissan 200SX, so I'm sure I can get through it. I have the service manuals as well which walk you through it pretty well, at least as far as I can see. The point about timing the fuel pump with the engine is not in the service manual, so thank you for that. I assume there is an alignment mark on the fuel pump sprocket also. The rockers will be something new for me. I'm really hoping I haven't impacted a cylinder, but I won't know until I get in there. If so, I'm hoping the rockers did their job and failed.

How long has the CRD been making this noise / how many miles?
It just started. I got it home (couple miles), which I probably shouldn't have, but I stopped running it after that.

Was the timing belt done at all?
The timing belt has never been done. It was on the list to get to (bummer, huh?)

How many miles on the CRD (not that it matters as much anymore - you are DUE just based on the age)
85K
Author:  Mike92104 [ Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
A quick check to help point you in the right direction of what may be wrong would be to feel the CAC hose going into the intake while it's running. If you feel a pulsing that times up with the knocking, I would guess it's an issue with the rockers.

Mike
Author:  paqclan [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
I'm kind of afraid to run it again. Even if it is a rocker issue only, and the timing belt hasn't slipped, I still need to remove the timing belt and the rear timing belt cover to get to the rockers, right?

This video is not my jeep, but it sounds exactly like this.
http://youtu.be/95x7NiozPB0
Author:  geordi [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
DO NOT RUN IT ANY MORE.

Read the comments of that video. That sound turned out to be broken rockers, which came from a skipped belt. Since you had a water pump seizure, the chances of MANY rockers being broken are very good. I do not think all of them are broken, but since you have to do the same amount of work to change one versus 16... Might as well get all new ones so you don't somehow miss a bad bearing in the process.

This also wouldn't be the worst time to consider ARP head studs since you will be right there (no extra work involved) but that is up to you.
Author:  paqclan [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
Well, I'm not sure if I had a water pump seizure. On my other car, the water pump was in between the timing belt so it got replaced at the same time as the timing belt, but it looks like in the Liberty CRD it's not.

Here's what I'm thinking on doing while I have it all opened up:
Timing Belt
Timing belt pulleys and Tensioner
All Rockers
ARP head studs (do they make a big difference? Seems like a good idea.)
Glow Plugs??? (Never been replaced)

I'm wondering if I should do the water pump, A/C compressor, or power steering pump while I'm in there too. They don't show signs of problems, but they've not been replaced yet.

I replaced the accessory drive belt tensioner a couple years ago.
I just replaced the alternator a few months ago

Anything else you would do at the same time?
Author:  geordi [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Major knocking / hammering sound from motor
The water pump is absolutely part of the timing belt drive system, it is between the crankshaft and the cam shafts.

Don't worry about replacing the fuel pump, they hardly ever go bad.

The ac compressor and the power steering are both "as needed" replacement schedule, don't mess with them now. The injectors will probably never go bad either.

The list you have so far seems ok, but you just need to get the timing components off first and see how bad the rockers are.


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