Want to feel better about your Jeep?

minnisp · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:29 pm

http://consumeraffairs.com/automotive/mazda_trans.html

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:22 am

changingtime · **Posted:** Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:59 pm

Unfortunately Honda Odyssey's are probably the worst for trans failures. And I keep buying them for a family vehicle...go figure.

jinstall · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:23 pm

They are replacing $2500 transmissions, I just replaced a $8100 engine. I don't feel better.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:01 am

Quote:

They are replacing $2500 transmissions, I just replaced a $8100 engine. I don't feel better.

Track racing isn't a cheap sport...

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:19 pm

I don't track race, and I had to replace my engine because of a failed turbo. I am TODAY, just finishing the replacement of my SECOND turbo (the one that came with my replacement engine) because it made a noise and I discovered that the shaft had play in it... And that it had been leaking oil again. Not enough that engine damage has happened (I hope) because it didn't catastrophically fail like last time, but it was leaking. This was on the ECO engine tune from GDE, who has developed their tune to PROTECT all the components.

At this point, I blame MOPAR for choosing components that are too close to their operational limits for long-term use. I have seen this in MANY areas of the CRD, but also in the other Chrysler vehicles I currently own. Like the 1994 Town and Country minivan, that ate its transmission at 40k miles, 80k miles, and 120k miles ON THE DOT each time... Until (at 120k) we installed an auxiliary transmission cooler. The van now has 250k miles on it, with that transmission from 120k. BAD DESIGN and CHEAP - That is what MOPAR does.

I will NEVER buy another Chrysler product, period.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:47 pm

geordi wrote:

IAt this point, I blame MOPAR for choosing components that are too close to their operational limits for long-term use. .

Better point that blame at VM since they built the engine to there specs not Chryslers.

minnisp · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:17 pm

i guess i underestimated the misery some of you guys/gals have been through. I need to find out more about these turbo issues... one of the dealers i brought mine to tried to take mine off of the road VOR to replace the turbocharger. Then some folks on this site kind of convinced me that it was a scam to get warranty money from chrysler.

Now hearing this horror story about a failed engine due to turbocharger oil leak .. hmm.

So i'm going to search the site but how can you tell if the turbo is one of the defective ones? Or are they all crap?

Pierre

Greasey Bob · **Joined:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am **Posts:** 228

If these are so bad how come they still cost so much? I think the price went up since I purchased my a year ago and now they all have more mileage.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:58 pm

geordi, what oil have you used in your CRD? Just curious.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:32 pm

TJKJ-trollboy: I'm pointing at the right party, thank you very much. VM has thousands of these motors in use in industrial or marine applications with the same setup... Except for the changes that Mopar insisted on for either emissions or cost savings. VM builds what the customer wants, not what they want. Thanks for playing though.

JeepDan: Mobil 1 Truck and SUV (Also known as Mobil 1 Delvac - same product) fully synthetic 5w40. I will be shortening my change interval for a while until I validate that this problem is cured.

What happened to my CRD: After driving around on this current oil change for a while, I pulled a 6x12x6 high enclosed trailer 500 miles to Florida empty, then back to Savannah loaded with stuff from storage. The trailer weighs 1200 empty, and I figure I had about 2500-3000 worth of crap in it coming back. It was packed pretty solid. The CRD ran warm on me both ways, something it has not done with this trailer before. FYI, even pulling a 7000 lb generator, the engine doesn't gain temperature. So this was unusual... But it was 95 out. 15mpg unloaded, 14mpg loaded. Yuck. The lowest towing mileage I have seen is about 19mpg normally, maybe 15 with that generator. EGT was at 1100 consistently (measured in the turbo INLET right from the manifold) so that should equate to about 800~ after the turbo if my information is correct. Boost was running 14psi, speed 70mph. Temperature never got to 3/4 on the gauge, and it did fluctuate and cool down some, especially when the clouds gathered even before it started raining a bit. I did not shut the engine off while fueling, and had several miles of slow speeds at both ends of the trip.

After getting back to Savannah and dropping the trailer, I heard a funny chirping kinda noise from the turbo while filling up again. I pulled the vacuum line off the turbo and the noise stopped, back on, and it started again... Off and on once more, and it didn't make any more noise. I didn't think much about it at the time, but I heard it again the next day, and doing the hose trick didn't change anything. I'm not sure why I decided to check the dipstick at that point, but it was low - Not reading at all! 2 quarts of Mobil 1 Truck and SUV into it... Still nothing, but the noise was gone again. Uh oh. Thats when I started going over everything, and decided to do a full oil change and pull the turbo. I got 4 quarts out of the pan. The engine was not visibly smoking while running, so the leak must be very small.

The turbo has side-to-side shaft play (not a lot) where the spare I have (bought brand new before the engine failure) has none. I had gotten a turbo with the replacement engine, (both having 60k miles on them) and had eventually put that 60k turbo back onto the engine instead of using the new unit, because the new one didn't seem to develop boost evenly. Turns out, the vacuum motor was not set properly from the factory, the shaft is too short. That has been fixed now. So, I had been running with the older turbo, which now has 112k miles on it when it developed this problem. What I suspect has happened is that the turbo's bearings were on the way out OR it reached its lifespan... And started leaking oil past the seals. Since this is the SAME TYPE of problem that cost me an engine before, I am very nervous about it, but I think I caught it early enough this time that there was not a catastrophic loss of pressure to the #1 cylinder, since this was a slow leak.

I will be sending the bad turbo into Garrett for rebuilding, and looking into purchasing an oil-level gauge of some sort in the near future. As usual... The factory gauges and idiot light for oil pressure were USELESS and didn't alert me to anything. Had I not heard that chirping... I might be looking for a THIRD engine now. I'll dump the thing in a lake before I pay for that again.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:15 pm

So after towing 7,000 lbs generator all over the country you run the engine out of oil not once but twice and think it is a design problem??

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:50 pm

Country? No. The big generator has been moved around one city, for a total of maybe 150 miles, spread over 2 rentals and 9 months.

As for "running the engine out of oil" that would imply knowledge of a failure and ignoring that knowledge. The first time the turbo failed, it did so in an instant with no warning at all, at 65mph, and while stopping the vehicle, (and unaware that the turbo shaft had snapped off) the oil pump pushed the oil into the exhaust. I knew it had lost the oil b/c of the huge cloud of smoke behind me, but that did not tell me about the design of this engine where the oil pressure MUST be maintained between the turbo and the #1 cylinder, or that cylinder will starve for oil and overheat almost instantly. That is the only logical explanation for the results that I can come up with.

This time, I heard something unusual, which caused me to investigate. Yes, the engine was LOW on oil, but not out. The problem here again, is that the turbo failed for reasons unknown, and there was no warning at all about the oil being leaked. Thankfully this time the leak was slow enough that the cylinder retained its oil supply. I have now driven the CRD around for about 30 miles with no ill effects. The exhaust smoked more from this turbo being stored immersed in oil, than it did when it had a leak internally!

The problem I have is in the selection of a turbo that can be operated well within the normal limits of the vehicle AS DESIGNATED BY CHRYSLER (towing, 5000 lbs limit) and it fails out, with a failure mode that involves the loss of the engine unless the failure is caught in a VERY small window of time. Had I not heard the bearing chirp, the engine would have run itself out of oil completely, and STILL that badly-placed pressure sensor would not have lit (like it NEVER DID when the engine DID run out the first time) There should be another safety monitor on the engine or turbo, which instantly reports if the oil level drops to an unsafe level, say 2 quarts low. I plan to install such a device, as soon as I find a good one.

europachris · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:13 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Better point that blame at VM since they built the engine to there specs not Chryslers.

I am sure that DCX had plenty of input into the engine design, i.e. "that costs too much, make it cheaper". Additionally, the gallactically craptastic ECM and TCM programming job that DCX did greatly exacerbated powertrain problems already present due to the rampant cost cutting and design method of "good enough to make it out of warranty".

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:10 am

Funny enough, no engine trouble here...but the body is starting to rot...from the inside outward.

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