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REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62410		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  moto-scoot [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
Put rear main seal in.
need torque figures for the rear crank hub?
red or blue loctie?
torque figures for flex plate bolts?
red or blue loctie?

thats one of the most unique rear main ive ever put in.
Author:  moto-scoot [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
also installing new torque converter& pump
:juggle: install free f37 converter :juggle:
or buy euro converter?
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
if I was opening up the tranny - I'd add the new pump and a Euro (or Suncoast) converter.

no sense putting questionable parts back in.

I don't know torque numbers - but the Noob guide had a link to the manual - should be there.
Author:  moto-scoot [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
no luck finding in manual
doesnt even say you have to remove crank hub to install rear seal.
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
Fasteners holding rear crank support hub to block (5 bolts): 33 ft-lbs / 45.1 N-m

Adapter plate hub to crank shaft (8 bolts): 57 ft-lbs / 78.5 N-m

6x flexplate to hub bolts:
*Step 1: Tighten all fasteners in clockwise cross-pattern to 37 ft-lbs / 50 N-m
*Step 2: One at a time, loosen each fastener then re-tighten to 19 ft-lbs / 25 N-m plus 60 degrees!

There is no need for any thread-locker or other compounds on the bolts.
Author:  moto-scoot [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
THANK YOU!!!
Author:  warp2diesel [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
MrMopar64 wrote:
Fasteners holding rear crank support hub to block (5 bolts): 33 ft-lbs / 45.1 N-m

Adapter plate hub to crank shaft (8 bolts): 57 ft-lbs / 78.5 N-m

6x flexplate to hub bolts:
*Step 1: Tighten all fasteners in clockwise cross-pattern to 37 ft-lbs / 50 N-m
*Step 2: One at a time, loosen each fastener then re-tighten to 19 ft-lbs / 25 N-m plus 60 degrees!

There is no need for any thread-locker or other compounds on the bolts.


Respectfully disagree.
The new Mopar torque converter bolts are pretreated with blue Loctite.
Suncoast recommends red for their Torque converters.

I my opinion the KJ FSM is an poor excuse for a Service Manual, unfortunately it is all we have.
Author:  nalu [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
I am in the process of replacing my rear main seal and haven't been able to get the flywheel hub mounting process down correctly. I installed the new rear main seal and followed procedure. Engine would not rotate. I loosened the bolts back up, tightened them to 25nm and it would not rotate. I loosened them a little bit more and it would rotate. I took the bolts out, one at a time, and put some loctite on them and re-tightened them to a little less then 25nm. It will rotate now, but the whole thing doesn't seem right. Any advice?
Author:  moto-scoot [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
your right somethings not right.
did you torque the 8 hub bolts to 57 ft/lbs?
when i did mine i had to put flex plate bolts is and hold with pry bar to it keep from turning while torque the bolts.
did the shims behind rear seal come out?
mine had one solid one and two piece one on top off it.[then rear main]
then flex plate.
Author:  nalu [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
Hmmm, I did follow the procedure for torquing the bolts on the first try. I never saw any shims... I pried the old seal out. It looked clean behind it, no shims that I could see. I slid the new seal in place and used the tool to press the seal in evenly. I just oiled the rubber part like you would an oil filter rubber o-ring. Thin film of clean oil. I never removed the other plate with bolts around the seal. One of the bolts was a little loose, so I torqued them all down according to the manual. I assume that it is just covering the bearing that holds the rear of the crankshaft.
The flexplate did seem to have very little clearance between it and the engine cover. Without the transmission mated up, it seemed to rotate just fine.
To lock the flexplate when I first torqued it down to 57 ft/lbs, I used the wrench and socket on the front of the crankshaft turned against the crossmember below so that the engine could not rotate.
Author:  moto-scoot [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
MrMopar64 wrote:
Fasteners holding rear crank support hub to block (5 bolts): 33 ft-lbs / 45.1 N-m

Adapter plate hub to crank shaft (8 bolts): 57 ft-lbs / 78.5 N-m

6x flexplate to hub bolts:
*Step 1: Tighten all fasteners in clockwise cross-pattern to 37 ft-lbs / 50 N-m
*Step 2: One at a time, loosen each fastener then re-tighten to 19 ft-lbs / 25 N-m plus 60 degrees!

There is no need for any thread-locker or other compounds on the bolts.


flex plate should have been 25nm plus 60degrees.
flex plate not reversed?
check torque converter didnt move out.
Author:  nalu [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
Thanks guys! I found the shim! I took the old seal and hit it on a wood table a couple of times and it fell out. Never saw anything about a shim in the manual. Now I have to remove the transmission again and remove the rear main seal. I assume that I won't be able to get it out without damaging it, so I'll order another one. $45 lesson. Could be worse. Surely that will fix my dilemma... Makes sense as to why the torque procedure didn't work right. Thanks again!
Author:  nalu [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
Just another thought. I didn't find a second, two-piece shim. Maybe it stayed on the engine. Only a thicker, heavier shim was stuck on the old seal.
Author:  moto-scoot [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
let me know what u find when you get rear main back out.
mine has one shim with grove cut in in for a o-ring.
and one shim 2 piece [2 half moon shaped]
glad i was able to get you on right track.
dont know what damage could have happened running engine with those shims out.
both the 05 & 06 manual have no mention of these parts or the crank hub.
just say remove flex plate & change seal :banghead:

are you replacing torque converter?
Author:  nalu [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
I should replace the torque converter now, but I'm getting so good at taking the transmission in and out that I think I'll wait. Mine has never given me any trouble. It probably will now that I've had my paws all over it and moved it around. It only slid forward a little when I took the trans out the first time. I rotated it and it sat right back in. Rotated some more to make sure it was completely seated. It felt like the first two flywheel to torque converter bolts barely caught the threads of the t.c. They torqued down, so I thought it was fine.
Yeah, running it without the "thrust washer" probably would've done some damage. I am sure it is one of the fly to t.c. bolts hitting the inside of the engine side of bell housing. It was hollow for the most part but the clearance to the flywheel seemed really tight. When I put it together I remember thinking "wow that's some tight engineering". The bolt holes are recessed, so I thought it was right. I even compared the old rear main seal to the new one and didn't notice the thrust washer stuck back in there.
The clues were poking me in the eyes the whole time.
:JEEPIN:
Author:  nalu [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
Got it all back together today! Runs great! Thanks again for the help. There are two funny shaped shims behind the thrush washer that are tabbed to fit in a certain way. They never came out, until I was inspecting them. Engine rotates smoothly and the torque specs worked out. Just don't miss that thrush washer! If it is stuck in the old rear main seal when you pull it out, it looks just the same as the part that it is stuck in.
Everyone told me that I should do my torque converter when I do my rear main seal.
My advice is to do your rear main seal if your doing your torque convertor!
:D
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
Reviving old thread. Has anyone seriously been able to get 19 ft lbs plus 60 degrees on the flywheel bolts? I was able to get about 50 before the bit started to bend, and then it blew up on the 2nd to the last bolt. Smashed my hands nicely when it let loose lol
I thought they were hard to remove because of some thread locker, but I'm thinking it was actually just about 150 ft lbs of torque. I mean, I've gone through 3 or 4 T50 bits messing with two of these things. Even with heat they are tough to remove. I'm seriously thinking of ordering a box of normal bolts for this job as replacements, because the T50's are getting expensive, and dangerous when they fail. Wouldn't a good grade 8 do the trick? I hope the red locktite doesn't set up over night :banghead:
Author:  dhenderz [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
I agree. The original torque on those bolts was way more than the re-torque spec would suggest. I broke 2 bits removing them. But didn't have any issue getting them re-torqued to the factory spec. I did end up purchasing a high quality torx bit. The low quality ones just snap/explode.
Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
dhenderz wrote:
I agree. The original torque on those bolts was way more than the re-torque spec would suggest. I broke 2 bits removing them. But didn't have any issue getting them re-torqued to the factory spec. I did end up purchasing a high quality torx bit. The low quality ones just snap/explode.


I don't know. I used two different torque wrenches, just to make sure that I wasn't exceeding the 19 ft lbs, but both times, with my longest breaker bar no less, it was some extreme torque. I thought I'd snap the heads off of the bolts.
hmm, what brand bit did you get? I busted a Husky from home depot, and two less expensive ones. Do I need one that is impact rated or something?
OTOH, I assume they designed it to use the large surface area of these particular bolts, but couldn't I upgrade to a grade 8 with a steel washer to spread the force out like the fat OEM bolt? Calling all bolt experts :dizzy:
I have 4 or 5 more engines to tear-down, so I need to improve my tactics on this part. I almost broke my hand, twice :furious: Not my first go round on building engines or giant wind turbines with hydraulic torquing machines, but this crap torx bit thing is lame. I can handle the angular tightening, but 100+ ft lbs of torque on a torx bit that is about 10mm across? Heck, even when I heat them up, some of the heads get bent during removal, so I need at least some replacement bolts anyhow.

thanks for any advice or harassment :rockon:
Author:  geordi [ Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REAR MAIN SEAL HELP!
You strong gorilla!

Seriously, I remember you asking me what kind of issues I had with pulling those flex plate bolts... All I did was chuck the Ryobi cordless impact gun at it and each one spun right out with barely 3-5 hits. That torque spec does not seem correct to me if you are trashing the bits like that. It shouldn't be that hard, and those didn't look like stretch bolts to me. They have to have a non-threaded "neck" section that would actually stretch in, I didn't think they did?

This seems like another place where the service manual is referencing things that were changed in the final production model. Just like the book insists (with pictures even!) that we have a wastegate turbo, when we obviously don't.
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