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Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62651		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
Did anyone ever get a copy of this TSB; I've looked thru the chat but don't see a copy or link to a copy? If so please post or email me a copy. Given the build date on my 2005 and proof of transfer of the 7/70 warranty I know I'm still under warranty and I'd like to see the limits on the TSB to see if I have any hope of getting a warranty replacement before I go argue with the dealer. No I don't have any glow plug codes at this time but I do want the ceramics out of there.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
I doubt glow plugs are covered under any type of extended warranty,spark plugs are not for the gas engines and both do the same thing,ignite the fuel/air mixture and both are considered wear items.
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
You may be right but I want to be sure before I spend my hard earned $s that I need for the GDE turbo not to mention new tires. I know spark plugs are not covered by a normal warranty for the reason you state but glow plugs are not at all like spark plugs. Diesel engines ignite by compression only no glow plug necessary (in fact my 1993 Cummins had no glow plugs just a heater grid in the fuel injection system). All glow plugs do is warm up fuel to make ignition easier on really cold mornings. More to the point a TSB is not a warranty it specifies a set of circumstances under which certain components will be fixed by the dealer because of a known factory or other problem. In theory that could even include spark plugs if defective spark plugs were identified by the vehicle's manufacture.

The fact that Chrysler has issued a TSB indicates they know of a problem with the glow plugs. I suspect, but again want to know, that the TSB will only cover replacement if I have a failed glow plug code but....
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
papaindigo wrote:
You may be right but I want to be sure before I spend my hard earned $s that I need for the GDE turbo not to mention new tires. I know spark plugs are not covered by a normal warranty for the reason you state but glow plugs are not at all like spark plugs. Diesel engines ignite by compression only no glow plug necessary (in fact my 1993 Cummins had no glow plugs just a heater grid in the fuel injection system). All glow plugs do is warm up fuel to make ignition easier on really cold mornings. More to the point a TSB is not a warranty it specifies a set of circumstances under which certain components will be fixed by the dealer because of a known factory or other problem. In theory that could even include spark plugs if defective spark plugs were identified by the vehicle's manufacture.

The fact that Chrysler has issued a TSB indicates they know of a problem with the glow plugs. I suspect, but again want to know, that the TSB will only cover replacement if I have a failed glow plug code but....

TSB is issued for a known problem with a known fix,warranty will pay for it if you are in the 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty,outside that warranty you the customer pay for the fix.Recalls are free no matter what,not the same for TSB's.


Oh and yes I know what glow plugs do,worked with them for 10 years.
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
I figured you knew glow plugs. As for the TSB I've got a 2005 CRD that's covered under the 7/70 warranty until sometime in mid to late 2012 which is why I'm trying to dig up a copy of the TSB. If I have no luck here I know the head of the parts dept. at the local Jeep dealer so I'll try there.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
The TSB just says the cramic ones are no longer available and if one goes bad the kit with four 5 volt metal clad glow plugs and the control relay along with a ECM flash is needed.

I'm not sure if the 7/70 power train warranty on the 05's will cover it but my extended Chrysler Gold one I got for my 06 will but there needs to be a failure first.

TSB 08-005-11.
It's three pages and has the different procedures for flashing the ECM for the 05 and 06 model years.

Nothing about required, mandatory, failure prone or anything like that. Just an advisiory saying the 5 volt ceramic ones are no longer available.
Author:  Ajamant [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
Oh I guarantee you they won't cover the replacement of WORKING glow plugs. Even if they went bad I'd be really surprised, as they are considered a wear item. My #2 went bad and I replaced all 4 without an issue, all plugs intact and no cylinder damage.
Author:  EAB [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
So are the ceramic ones prone to braking and causing cylinder damage?

Here is a copy/paste of the top part of the TSB. After this its just instructions.

THE wiTECH DIAGNOSTIC APPLICATION IS THE PREFERRED METHOD FOR
FLASHING ECUs ON 2006 KJ VEHICLES.
HELP USING THE wiTECH DIAGNOSTIC APPLICATION FOR FLASHING AN ECU IS
AVAILABLE BY SELECTING “HELP” THEN “HELP CONTENTS” AT THE TOP OF
THE wiTECH DIAGNOSTIC APPLICATION WINDOW.
THE wiTECH SOFTWARE LEVEL MUST BE AT RELEASE 11.02 OR HIGHER TO
PERFORM THIS PROCEDURE.
StarSCAN or StarMOBILE DESKTOP CLIENT MAY ALSO BE USED TO PERFORM
THIS PROCEDURE.
WHENEVER A 2005 KJ ECU MODULE IS REPROGRAMMED, THE DRBIII® MUST BE
USED FOR FLASHING ECUs.
SUBJECT:
Glow Plug Service
MODELS:
2005 - 2006 (KJ) Liberty (Includes International Markets)
NOTE: This bulletin applies to all KJ vehicles equipped with a 2.8L engine (Sales
code ENR).
Discussion:
Ceramic glow plugs are no longer available through Mopar. The ceramic glow plugs have
been superseded by metallic glow plug.
When replacing a ceramic glow plug with a metallic glow plug it will be necessary to
replace all four glow plugs, replace the glow plug control module (GCM) and reprogram the
Engine Control Module. All changes must be done at once.
It is only necessary to replace all glow plugs, the GCM and reprogram the ECU one time. If
any of these components require replacement after the initial change then only that
component needs to be replaced.
If part numbers can not be used to identify if the plug is ceramic on a vehicle use sand
NUMBER: 08-005-11
GROUP: Electrical
DATE: February 02, 2011
paper to scuff the oxidation off the plug. Ceramic glow plugs are white in color. Metallic
plugs are gray in color.
GCM's for vehicles with the ceramic glow plugs are still available through Mopar. If the
ceramic glow plugs do not need to be replaced and the ECU or GCM does then use the
original parts.
ECU's from Mopar are programmed with the software that is configured to operate with the
ceramic glow plugs. Anytime a ECU is replaced and the vehicle has already been
upgraded to the metallic glow plugs then the ECU must be reprogrammed with the
software for metallic glow plug operation.
All Part numbers are listed below.
PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description
AR 68090434AA Kit, Glow Plug
Kit contains 4 glow plugs and glow plug control module
AR 68090430AA Plug, Metallic Glow
AR 68090431AA Module, Glow Plug Control (Metallic)
AR 56044671AC Module, Glow Plug Control (Ceramic)
AR Module, Engine Control
1 04275086AB Label, Authorized Modification
Author:  Ajamant [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
Yes the ceramic ones can break and fall into your cylinder causing damage. However I do not know anyone that has had a failure while driving. When you are replacing them you can also damage the plug and send a small piece of the plug into your cylinder: bad news. NO impact wrenches when removing. There are plenty of threads on the procedure.
Author:  dirtmover [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
papaindigo wrote:
I suspect, but again want to know, that the TSB will only cover replacement if I have a failed glow plug code but....


Of course, connecting one of the GP's direct to your battery will give you the code you need :lol:


EAB wrote:
So are the ceramic ones prone to braking and causing cylinder damage?


They usually split at the end. Occasionally small fragments of ceramic can break away. These fragments may, or may not, cause engine damage. The possibility of damage is very real but not too common. OTOH metal plugs have a tendency to swelling causing them to become stuck in the head. GP technology really hasn't been perfected yet and the continual push for more rapid heat up is simply making them more fragile :(


EAB wrote:
If part numbers can not be used to identify if the plug is ceramic on a vehicle use sand paper to scuff the oxidation off the plug. Ceramic glow plugs are white in color. Metallic plugs are gray in color.


Hmmm, the new ceramic GP's I have installed have all been black. I wonder if this is a coating or if the TSB writer hasn't actually seen a ceramic GP and is assuming that ceramic=white :roll: .
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
Thanks all, I have the info I needed. The TSB only applies if a ceramic glow plug fails during the warranty period, which is what I'd figured.
Author:  RobMc [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
All, I had that failure while driving...caused catastrophic damage to the engine as the ceramic end eventually broke a valve which then destroyed the piston, cylinder and cylinder head. I've got pictures to show the damage as well as the pictures of the broken glow plug. PM me if you'd like to see them, they're pretty ugly!
Author:  racertracer [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow plug TSB 08-005-11
RobMc wrote:
PM me if you'd like to see them, they're pretty ugly!


Oh go ahead.....Post the carnage, we can handle it.
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