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Hole in engine block
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63416		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  fizbang [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Hole in engine block
Just suffered something internal knocking a quarter size hole in the lower and forward area of my engine block. Haven't dug in yet but I'm assuming a piston rod broke. Everyone I've spoken with says motor is not repairable. Anyone know a good way to repair a hole in a block?

I love this vehicle and would like to repair or replace the motor but will sell as is if anyone is interested...

Billy
Author:  Sir Sam [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
Hi there I just sent you an email about your CRD, but I will post a few comments publicly so others can benefit.

You can get a used motor around the country, the lowest being about $4000 the highest being 7500. you can look on car-part.com. (plus misc other costs like timing belt and fluids, and the major costs like shipping of the motor and paying someone to install it, you might find it cheaper to buy another used CRD).

Check car-part.com for used motors.

I don't think your going to be fixing your hole in the block, time for a new motor.
Author:  racertracer [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
I would like to know if you were using non synthetic oil as your motor oil of choice?

How many miles on the engine?
Author:  yrkcrd [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
fizbang wrote:
Just suffered something internal knocking a quarter size hole in the lower and forward area of my engine block. Haven't dug in yet but I'm assuming a piston rod broke. Everyone I've spoken with says motor is not repairable. Anyone know a good way to repair a hole in a block?

I love this vehicle and would like to repair or replace the motor but will sell as is if anyone is interested...

Billy


Not sure where you are located but I may be willing to part with my project motor.
It has 84k miles on it

Still in the KJ so I can fire it up and send you a video of it running if you are interested.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
The only good repair for a hole in the block - is a new block.

and FYI - the folks who have blown holes in the block - have normally done so because the Turbo dumped all the engine oil into the intake manifold (apparently in < 30secs)
so I'd be looking at a new turbo and cleaning up the intake as well.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
I have had holes repaired in engine blocks with a Powder Torch and they ran well afterward.
But not when it is caused by a rod going through the side.
If the engine is knocking you are screwed and your crank is trashed.
Not to say the crank and block can't be welded up and repaired, but do you want to pay the cost to have both the block and the crank the stress relieved and blue printed after they are repaired by welding?
You would be better off if the crank is trashed, replacing at least the short block.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
Engines do tend to run better without "improper ventilation" being installed in them. The rapid loss of oil from a turbo failure can EASILY starve the cylinders of oil pressure. The immediate result will be the rod bearings to the crank will melt away, the rod will snap (or the piston head will overheat and shatter) and the whole mess will punch a hole in something to get away.

Ergo - You need a new engine. You are the current owner of 500 lbs of scrap metal surrounded by a Jeep KJ body. That block cannot be repaired. The next step will be determining if anything ELSE was shattered or damaged in the commotion inside the engine... Your head should be OK, but it needs to be inspected. This is also a good time to make the needed modifications to prevent this from ever happening again - remove and disable the EGR permanently to keep crud out of the engine (and keep your oil cleaner), upgrade the turbo to prevent a turbo failure which may have contributed to this by leaking your oil out without your knowledge.... And any other suggestions the members here might have.
Author:  fizbang [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
Thanks for all the input everyone. For those interested, I was driving along at 55, maybe less and all was normal. There was no strange noises or temperature indications, then an instant internal bang that I not only heard but also felt. My first thought was the transmission but when I got out, coolant was pouring out. The hole in the block is low and forward on the passenger side. I had about 1500 miles since last oil change which was 5W40 (not synthetic). Also, I have the Green Diesel Eco Tune which I understand takes the EGR valve out of the equation. I would think oil starvation from turbo failure would give a brief indication prior to engine failure but it was instant. I haven't opened things up yet but if and when I do, I will post my findings.

Safe travels,
Billy
Author:  Roostre [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
How many miles do you have on your CRD?
Author:  geordi [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
Miles on the engine doesn't matter. Non synthetic oil is what killed your engine, the oil passages in this engine are INSANELY tiny. I can easily see now where having standard oil which turns to sludge when it is overheated or stressed would block up these critical holes, and your rod bearings on the crank will starve and overheat nearly instantly.

We are talking passages less than 1/16" to the rod bearings, and smaller still within the turbo bearing. I would replace that turbo as well as the engine, the tolerances on this design are WAY too small to trust with the wrong oil.

I'm not really in a position to afford the cost, but I'm moving to 5000 mile oil changes on mine from now on, and that is WITH synthetic. I'm also strongly looking into a centrifuge for additional oil filtration, now that I have identified a full-flow oil port on the pan that seems ready-made to supply such a device.
Author:  Roostre [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
geordi wrote:
Miles on the engine doesn't matter.


In some respects I agree, but the value of the vehicle will vary drastically depending on the odometer reading. A CRD with less than 100K is more likely to be repaired than one in a 350K mile chassis that is clapped out.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
Roostre wrote:
geordi wrote:
Miles on the engine doesn't matter.


In some respects I agree, but the value of the vehicle will vary drastically depending on the odometer reading. A CRD with less than 100K is more likely to be repaired than one in a 350K mile chassis that is clapped out.


Unless he is paying for it himself, it is totaled without needing to know the mileage. You might be able to make a claim against a comprehensive policy from an insurance company, but with the going rate of JUST the engine being $5000 or so, and easily another $2500 just in labor... The insurance company will stop counting at 75% and just call it. With the going rate of these CRDs being in the vicinity of 10k (they use the blue book value which will eviscerate our value - they don't care what WE think of these) then you have $7500 to run up to... And they call it if it hits 7501. The "selling" price of these for a functional vehicle has varied between about 7 and 15... So the KBB might matter a little, but the insurance also goes by the AUCTION values for calculations. Basically, they look at vehicles strictly as replaceable components. Burn the whole thing rather than piece it back together, it is cheaper for them as a business risk.

So in this case, mileage is irrelevant unless you are looking to part the rest of the rolling chassis. The fixed parts / interior... Doesn't really matter. The engine is toasted regardless.
Author:  racertracer [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
Word to the warning: If you extend your oil change intervals and use conventional motor oils instead of the specified motor oil, then you can expect an engine catastrophe in the not too distant future. We have seen this many times before, reported in this forum.

A diesel engine produces a lot of soot and a good synthetic oil keeps the dirt suspended and away from moving parts. Don’t over extend oil changes and do not use non synthetic oil, use the specified synthetic oil and change it at scheduled intervals or less.

Many Liberty CRD motors have been destroyed due to the use of conventional motor oils and extending oil changes past 6,000, 8,000 – 12,000 miles.

The tight tolerances of our motors are unforgiving to mistakes. A synthetic oil change may be expensive but so is a new engine. Keep your engine clean.

I am a believer of flushing the motor if you have to.
Author:  yrkcrd [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
I don't want to start an oil debate but I agree on a good synthetic oil.

Amsoil makes quite a few diesel 5w40 oils, and even the Shell Totella T6 5w40 is available for ~$5 a quart when you buy it buy the gallon at wally world.

These are not the old forgiving small blocks of yesterday.

Very tight tolerances plus DOHC and throw a turbo in the mix plus the shearing forces of high compression diesel tend to be hard on oil.
Author:  mikey1273 [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
yrkcrd wrote:
I don't want to start an oil debate but I agree on a good synthetic oil.

Amsoil makes quite a few diesel 5w40 oils, and even the Shell Totella T6 5w40 is available for ~$5 a quart when you buy it buy the gallon at wally world.

These are not the old forgiving small blocks of yesterday.

Very tight tolerances plus DOHC and throw a turbo in the mix plus the shearing forces of high compression diesel tend to be hard on oil.



well said as far as oil changes I have been using the rotella T6 5w40 changing in every 6,250 as per the owners manual severe service schedule as religiously as possible. I would not trust a non diesel oil or a non synthetic oil. trying to save money on oil for an engine as advanced complex rare and expensive to replace is just being penny wise and pound foolish. T6 is like $21 a gallon at wally world and thats the best deal around. If you look at name brand oils thats not a ton more cash for the peace of mind of using an approved oil.
Author:  yrkcrd [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
mikey1273 wrote:
yrkcrd wrote:
I don't want to start an oil debate but I agree on a good synthetic oil.

Amsoil makes quite a few diesel 5w40 oils, and even the Shell Totella T6 5w40 is available for ~$5 a quart when you buy it buy the gallon at wally world.

These are not the old forgiving small blocks of yesterday.

Very tight tolerances plus DOHC and throw a turbo in the mix plus the shearing forces of high compression diesel tend to be hard on oil.



well said as far as oil changes I have been using the rotella T6 5w40 changing in every 6,250 as per the owners manual severe service schedule as religiously as possible. I would not trust a non diesel oil or a non synthetic oil. trying to save money on oil for an engine as advanced complex rare and expensive to replace is just being penny wise and pound foolish. T6 is like $21 a gallon at wally world and thats the best deal around. If you look at name brand oils thats not a ton more cash for the peace of mind of using an approved oil.


Nice! You should be good with that.

From amsoils own website (i'm a dealer but this is for anyone to see)
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/deo.aspx

They compare their one diesel oils to shell T6 and a few others.

As you can see somewhere between 200 and 250 hours the oil looses enough viscosity to become a 30w and the TBN (total base number) goes down.
Figure what roughly an average of 30 mph and this is roughly 6000 and 7500 miles.

On bob is the oil guy forums people seem to really like it.

*added for the price difference of the T6 versus the amsoil i'll use the T6 :o *
Author:  mikey1273 [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
I don't question the quality of Amsoil but it is the price for performance of it. Amsoil is more costly than T6 but for my change interval I don't see much difference. I did have a Blackstone Labs test done on my used oil once and they told me based on the tests....TBN and viscosity breakdown I could go 8000 miles with no problems using T6 and my driving habits. I have not done so but it gives me some comfort I can't change for an extra week or so.
I have not tried other amsoil fluids yet but I might for ones that stay in service longer.

I do like the air filter of theirs
Author:  yrkcrd [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hole in engine block
mikey1273 wrote:
I don't question the quality of Amsoil but it is the price for performance of it. Amsoil is more costly than T6 but for my change interval I don't see much difference. I did have a Blackstone Labs test done on my used oil once and they told me based on the tests....TBN and viscosity breakdown I could go 8000 miles with no problems using T6 and my driving habits. I have not done so but it gives me some comfort I can't change for an extra week or so.
I have not tried other amsoil fluids yet but I might for ones that stay in service longer.

I do like the air filter of theirs

Awesome on the blackstone.

I completely agree for the extra money the amsoil isn't worth it especially with your 6250 change intervals.
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