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If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your rear
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64853		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Terrence [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your rear
Control arms that is. When I was running the hose back for my EHM I noticed the lower rear trailing arms were severely rusted. Apparently the NHTSA are investigating premature corrosion on these. Unfortunately I can't wait for a recall to be issued (if they even will issue one), but I wanted everyone to be aware there may be a problem. I never thought to look at these as the rest of the jeep is pristine, garage kept, and has always been run through a car wash weekly. I got a nice used set for $70/Pr. They will go on tomorrow.






NHTSA Action Number: NHTSA Recall Campaign Number:
EA11013 N/A
Make: JEEP Model: LIBERTY
Manufacturer : CHRYSLER GROUP LLC
Model Year : 2005
Component(s) :
SUSPENSION:REAR
Date Investigation Opened : September 15, 2011
Date Investigation Closed : Open
Summary:
During the Preliminary Evaluation (PE11-013), the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) conducted an analysis of consumer field data from its Vehicle Owner Questionnaire (VOQ) database and from complaint data submitted to ODI by Chrysler. ODI's analysis of VOQ data identified 13 complaints alleging failure of either the right or left rear lower control arm due to excessive corrosion. All of these complaints were associated with vehicles originally sold or registered in a "salt belt" state (for the purposes of this investigation, 'salt belt' includes Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin and the District of Columbia). Also all of the complaints were associated with vehicles manufactured in model years (MY) 2004 or 2005. Three of these complaints also allege a loss of vehicle control due to the rear lower control arm failure. Similarly an analysis of Chrysler complaint data identified 11 complaints (2 of which are duplicative of VOQs) alleging failure of a rear lower control arm due to excessive corrosion. All 11 of these complaints were from consumers operating vehicles in a "salt belt" state and vehicles manufactured in either MY 2004 or 2005. Three of these complaints (not duplicative of VOQs) also allege a loss of vehicle control due to the rear lower control arm failure. The original scope of PE11-013 included MY 2002 through 2005 Jeep Liberty vehicles as they were in the same generation. In response to an Information Request (IR) letter sent by ODI, Chrysler provided information and sample components identifying a substantial design change of the rear lower control arms after MY 2003 and beginning with MY 2004. Analysis of complaint data from both data sources (ODI and Chrysler) did not identified any applicable complaints (lower control arm failures due to excessive corrosion) from vehicles manufactured during MY 2002 or 2003. Similarly no complaints from either data source were found in states outside of those identified as "salt belt" states. Chrysler stated in its IR letter response that its investigation and analysis is continuing to determine the scope, possible root causes of the unusual lower control arm corrosion and define possible consequences to motor vehicle safety. Based on ODI's data analysis from both sources (ODI and Chrysler data), the scope of the Engineering Analysis is being focused on vehicles originally sold or registered in a "salt belt" state and produced during MY 2004 and 2005. This investigation is being upgraded to an Engineering Analysis so that ODI can further assess the scope and potential safety consequences of the alleged defect.


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nice clean used arms
Author:  Terrence [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
The pic of the upper Link etc is just to show how clean the rest of the undercarriage is. The pics don't do justice to how rusty these things are you can see right through the drivers side arm.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Parking your Jeep or any other vehicle in a heated garage will accelerate the rusting, even if you wash it a lot. Cold slows the chemical reaction of the chlorides in the road salt and heat makes it worse. Chlorides can even rust holes through 304 Stainless Steel (316 not as bad) like your exhaust system.
Other factors that can rust you Jeep even worse is if the car wash uses recycled water that turns into brine from all the washed off salts in the winter. If your car wash uses recycled water with salt in it, you are nuking your Jeep and only knocking off the dirt.
Also some tap water is corrosive, I used to live in an area where even copper pipe would corrode through and leak in five years, CPVC pipe was the only plumbing that would hold up.When I lived there I would never wash my cars in town with the city water. The city water was worse than the road salts in that area.
Electrolysis is another problem our friends across the pond who live in the Alps can explain better than any of us. My '63 BMW which was brought back by a GI stationed in Germany had grounding straps on the hood, trunk lid and doors.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
When you wash it weekly I bet you do not wash the under carriage at all or not well enough.When I wash my KJ every sunday I spend $15 on the under carriage and $5 on the outside shiny surfaces.
Author:  Terrence [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
I didn't post this to have a lesson in car washing!!!!!!!!!
Obviously this isn't a car washing issue if the NHTSA is investigating it.
I'm just trying to give people a heads up before someone gets hurt or killed (I know too dramatic).
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Terrence wrote:
I didn't post this to have a lesson in car washing!!!!!!!!!
Obviously this isn't a car washing issue if the NHTSA is investigating it.
I'm just trying to give people a heads up before someone gets hurt or killed (I know too dramatic).

They investigate everything.If they find it is only happening in places where alot of salt is used then it is not a manufacturer defect and a enviromental issue that you need to take up with your local government.Since the rear LCA's have no type of balljoint that requires a grease that will drastically reduce the chances of a regional recall,anyways they can not force Chrysler for a recall for vehicles built before the current Chrysler became a actual company.


And yes I know toyota recalled alot of there pickup and SUV's due to frame rot but that was occuring in every region and country (salt use and no salt use)so it was not a outside envirmental factor that toyota could not control but the use of cheap steel.
Author:  jlgail4309 [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Thanks for heads up going outside to look right now. My two eight month old girls ride in that jeep.
Author:  jeepdan [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Terrence wrote:
I didn't post this to have a lesson in car washing!!!!!!!!!
Obviously this isn't a car washing issue if the NHTSA is investigating it.
I'm just trying to give people a heads up before someone gets hurt or killed (I know too dramatic).

Thanks Terrence for the post.
Forget the car washing argument! :shock: This is rust from the inside of welded steel tube. Geeze :roll:
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
jeepdan wrote:
Terrence wrote:
I didn't post this to have a lesson in car washing!!!!!!!!!
Obviously this isn't a car washing issue if the NHTSA is investigating it.
I'm just trying to give people a heads up before someone gets hurt or killed (I know too dramatic).

Thanks Terrence for the post.
Forget the car washing argument! :shock: This is rust from the inside of welded steel tube. Geeze :roll:

That section welded on top that the swaybar mounts to is only stich welded,it's not fully boxed.
Author:  Terrence [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
tjkj2002 wrote:
jeepdan wrote:
Terrence wrote:
I didn't post this to have a lesson in car washing!!!!!!!!!
Obviously this isn't a car washing issue if the NHTSA is investigating it.
I'm just trying to give people a heads up before someone gets hurt or killed (I know too dramatic).

Thanks Terrence for the post.
Forget the car washing argument! :shock: This is rust from the inside of welded steel tube. Geeze :roll:

That section welded on top that the swaybar mounts to is only stich welded,it's not fully boxed.



You have obviously never had one off. The sway bar bracket is stitch welded, but over top of the RHS that the arm is made from. It is fully boxed. I'm starting to think you just enjoy writing fiction!!!
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Terrence wrote:
You have obviously never had one off. The sway bar bracket is stitch welded, but over top of the RHS that the arm is made from. It is fully boxed. I'm starting to think you just enjoy writing fiction!!!

You just wrote exactly what I said.
Author:  Terrence [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Well then I fail to see the point because the sway bar bracket is not what is rusting out it's the RHS or box tubing. and apparently you fail to see the point of the original post it wasn't to point blame at Chrysler, if that was the case I would have been screaming at them to fix it and not buying replacements. I simply wanted to point out the is a problem and everyone in salt use areas should check theirs regardless of how well they wash their jeep etc.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Terrence wrote:
Well then I fail to see the point because the sway bar bracket is not what is rusting out it's the RHS or box tubing. and apparently you fail to see the point of the original post it wasn't to point blame at Chrysler, if that was the case I would have been screaming at them to fix it and not buying replacements. I simply wanted to point out the is a problem and everyone in salt use areas should check theirs regardless of how well they was their car etc.

It's eating around the welds as the welds are harder then the surounding material.Those gaps in the welds allows junk to be trapped unless washed very good and often.
Author:  black dog [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Arguing with tjkj is like wrestling a pig in the mud....hopefully sooner than later you realize that the pig likes it :-)r
Author:  DynoPax [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
One more reason to have quality rustproof treatment... Where I live, it`s almost mandatory, considering the insane amount of salt being spread on the roads. My Jeep is coated with Krown, very dirty when working on it but well protected too!
Author:  jeepdan [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
tjkj2002 wrote:
Terrence wrote:
Well then I fail to see the point because the sway bar bracket is not what is rusting out it's the RHS or box tubing. and apparently you fail to see the point of the original post it wasn't to point blame at Chrysler, if that was the case I would have been screaming at them to fix it and not buying replacements. I simply wanted to point out the is a problem and everyone in salt use areas should check theirs regardless of how well they was their car etc.

It's eating around the welds as the welds are harder then the surounding material.Those gaps in the welds allows junk to be trapped unless washed very good and often.

The welding promoted to the rust. But, these are rusting through from the INSIDE out. That is not good, as they can rust to failure before noticing the problem.
I'm going to poke around the welds on mine with a chipping hammer to check for thin spots.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
DynoPax wrote:
One more reason to have quality rustproof treatment... Where I live, it`s almost mandatory, considering the insane amount of salt being spread on the roads. My Jeep is coated with Krown, very dirty when working on it but well protected too!

Where I grew up every new vehicle sold had to be undercoated before leaving the dealership,state law.
Author:  Terrence [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Well I got them changed out here are a few pics of them off. They are rusting from the inside of the box tube outward. TJKJ if you still don't believe me you are welcome to come and look at them for yourself. Ok your turn since I know you have to have the last word. :roll:

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Author:  fratichelli [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
What do the new ones look like, the same? Did you do anything to seal the new ones? From your earlier pictures, most of your other components look OK.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If your jeep has ever been in the Salt Belt check your r
Terrence wrote:
Well I got them changed out here are a few pics of them off. They are rusting from the inside of the box tube outward. TJKJ if you still don't believe me you are welcome to come and look at them for yourself. Ok your turn since I know you have to have the last word. :roll:

Exactly like I stated the swaybar mounts are only stich welded,traps junk that corrodes the arms.The welds are harder then the surronding steel so are not as effected.

It only looks like there being eaten from the inside but really are not.
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