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CRD sleeve/head http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65447	Page 1 of 1

Author:	alphabet [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:	CRD sleeve/head
Hello! Got a dealership willing to work on the CRD. (this one had the "tools", unlike others who simply said no). I had a coolant in the oil issue, and was quoted $2300 for a head gasket change (I thought it would be around $1800). Well, got a call back stating the following: Cylinder #2 sleeve was broken. Technician said there was some scoring on the block or head. Cylinder head recommended "for sure"... EGR hoses to be replaced. EGR might be okay and probably wont need to be replaced (I called before the mechanic was there). Injectors were okay, a little rusty, but that they could be cleaned. recommended a thermostat because of the coolant in oil issue (i dont think this is necessary--but might be wrong) Got verbally quoted $4,400 max. Tech said he could just do the gasket, and replace the head. I am thinking replace the gasket, and the sleeve, related parts, EGR hoses, and a proper flush, and save some money, but this is out of my area of knowledge. Dealer$hip status aside, he seemed like he knew how to inspect and find the problems. Overall, the CRD ran "fine", minus the coolant leak. Fuel economy was decent (wife driving in city 16-18, me driving in hwy 24-28). Not sure where to take it from here. I had a tough time finding a mechanic for this vehicle. the local diesel shop didnt want the headache (he works on the big stuff), and the smaller shops/diesel, either didnt knew what to do, or didnt had the "tools". I got to make a decision today, as parts take about a week to arrive plus install.

Author:	papaindigo [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: CRD sleeve/head
IMHO you need to talk to the tech not to the service writer and probably need to see the engine. Comments: 1. cylinder sleeve was broken sounds a bit odd. These are replacable wet sleeves and could be scored, which would mean a piston problem too, but are unlikely to be broken. 2. scoring on the block or head - huh??. Which one is it? Have they confused a scored cylinder sleeve with a broken one? 3. replace EGR hoses - huh? The EGR has coolant hoses which are the same as anyother coolant hoses and would not need replacement because of coolant in the oil or for that matter oil in the coolant. It also has pipes but I don't see why those would need replacing. As for the EGR itself I don't see any particular impact coolant in the oil would have on it either. Dealers always love to replace the EGR, which I'll admit is all sooted up the instant it drove of the lot new, but it's not that hard to clean an EGR. 4. cylinder head replace for sure - not until it's been properly inspected and determined to be too warped or cracked to reuse. 5. rusty injectors - possibly but likely can be cleaned up by a competent injector shop. 6. tstat replacement - no way unless prior to this problem your temp gauge was reading low in which case the tstat was on the way out anyway. If temp gauge was reading essentially straight up the tstat is working fine. Assuming $4k includes a new/replacement head, new cylinder sleeve and piston (if needed), injector service, and a timing belt/water pump job since they are already in there it might not be unreasonable. I'd suggest you get more information and maybe chat with racertracer who recently had similar, at least in part, work done.

Author:	alphabet [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: CRD sleeve/head
Thanks. I called them back to clarify. Seems the sleeve broke, and took off a piece of the head, and scored the block. Not sure what that means in the grand scope of things (as far as functionality / reliability). He thinks the scoring is not bad, but that we won't know until its all back together. I dont think it will be too bad, since it worked good. My concern is that this would be a permanent type of coolant in the oil issue, and would need a new engine. Tech didnt mentioned anything about piston problem itself... yet. Sorry if I seem ignorant on this (I am), but what I thought would be simple, its got a few more things going on. They are preparing a more detailed list of what they find. I hope to then check em out and see whats up.

Author:	alphabet [ Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: CRD sleeve/head
Got back from the shop/dealership. The head "looked" fine. I dont know where he saw a chunk of it broken, but I did not saw anything. Only the sleeve was slightly scored, but they made it sound like it had a large gouge. I am getting it inspected and possibly polished, since its out, but I did not see any other damage. Very likely a piece of a glow plug that broke a long time ago caused it. It was about then that leak might have started. Now, the mechanic (and this being California I am sure there are not too many who knows how to work this) told me that the sleeve couldnt be replaced. I am thinking he is wrong, but maybe I can save some money and keep the one is in... its not bad, IMHO. I am glad I went and checked it out. Would have been out an xtra $1800.

Author:	papaindigo [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: CRD sleeve/head
I'll refrain from commenting on a mech (assuming it's the mech who said this as opposed to the service writer who I would expect to be clueless) who cannot recognize a standard wet sleeve press in/press out liner as opposed to a solid bore (even many of the latter can be overbored and have a sleeve pressed in) or who cannot look at the FSM or parts documents (see link on Sam's NOOB site). In any case cylinder liner with piston is 5142785AA and available for ca. $235+shipping and you might also need an appropriate shim kit and "O" ring. The liner is listed without a piston but appears to perhaps be harder to get and may cost more.

Author:	alphabet [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: CRD sleeve/head
I am just wondering if the cause of the leak can be related to the liner/piston issue. I am not an expert (and based on your "refraining" comment, I will assume the mechanic ain't one either ) Can this scored sleeve be linked to the coolant loss I am experienced? I have another thread somewhere, where after performing a combustion leak test, the liquid changed color. I assumed it was a head gasket only (prolly the head in worst case scenario) but looking deep, I am just wondering. The score didnt seem deep, more like a scratch, and didnt went all the way thru, barely felt with finger tip. Im printing off the FSM right now, getting the ammo ready for tommorow, but lack of tools and time limit my attempt at this. This website has been a life $aver a few times already, but this time I am relying on someone who simply has a garage, the tools, and the will... the dealership. arrgh...

Author:	papaindigo [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: CRD sleeve/head
You might want to PM/email Sir Sam/geordi/racertracer/Keith at GDE all of whom have more knowledge than I about the inside of our engine. That said my thoughts: 1. as noted earlier I don't see that the EGR or tstat, assuming the latter produces a proper temp gauge reading like I indicated, need any attention. Absent tstat caused overheating, doubtful as our tstats generally fail open or opening early hence the engine runs cold, neither of these would have anything to do with cyclinder scoring or coolant loss unless of course the ERG hoses (they are standard coolant hoses) are bad or not clamped properly or the EGR cooler is leaking. 2. if your combustion leak test indicated combustion gas in the coolant it's most likely a head gasket issue although with the head off I'd have a cylinder head shop check for warping just in case. It's not impossible to have a cracked block produce combustion gas in the coolant but the CRD block is very stout and the interface with the head is the typical problem area. 3. the scratch in the cylinder sleeve I suspect is unrelated and a likely source is a busted glow plug tip so check for that. In fact while you are that far into the engine I'd recommend replacing the glow plugs, it will only take minutes if the head is off, with the Etenoc1 7v metal ones that just drop in. As to whether the scratch can be "polished" out without seeing/feeling it I have no opinion to offer.

Author:	CRDMiller [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: CRD sleeve/head
I would like to see the cylinder liner scoring. Normal cylinder liner scuffing on major and minor thrust faces is totally normal. Coolant meets oil in few places. Oil cooler head gasket liner seals injecter/nozzel sleeves pinhole leaks in liner due to cavatation erosion i suppose we could have coolant blow-by through a leak in the egr cooler that could contaminate the oil but this would require a lot of coolant. Liner damage cause internally that could produce coolant leaks into liner bore are always an effect of some other root cause such as a rod or dropped valve or even forign object damage that would typically also damage the head extensively and also the turbocharger.

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