LOST JEEPS :: View topic - TB Swap

Recent new owner of a "previously enjoyed" '05 CRD with 106K on the clock. We upgraded from a Jetta TDI with 208K to this little SUV on purpose :-)

I'm not afraid of it being a 2 yr only vehicle and an orphan as I've owned plenty of oddball VW's (Thing, Ghia, even a 914) and our household is all diesel - 94.5 PowerStroke Ford, '00 VW Golf TDI, and a Kubota.

I've never done a Timing Belt although I have the VW Tools for a TDI. It was always due in the winter time or I was in a hurry and the TDI's were our commuter vehicles. I've done most of my other mechanic work over the years, brakes, shocks, axles, glowplugs, rebuilt a VW aircooled, etc. I've read through a couple of the write ups for the Jeep CRD and it appears doable. Looks like all I'm lacking is the VM.1052 and 1053 pins so a $100 in tools, plus bits from my TDI kit, and I'm covered. My VW TDI Guy hasn't done a Jeep yet either but will tool up as a couple of his other clients have the CRD too. The CRD is not our only vehicle.

So $1200 to the guy I trust for a full TB/Water Pump swap? Or do it myself over a long weekend for $600 in tools and parts and put the savings to a GDE Eco Tune and hope I don't mess it up.

Thanks,

JP

Very informative thread

I'd guess you best allow another 5 hrs for the water pump part of the job.

The timing belt (including various "spinning" thing replacements if need be) is not too difficult just tedious as you need to be careful. About a 5hr job with an extra pair of hands being helpful. You can probably get away with just the 2 cam pins and a 6mm long shaft allen key for the flywheel pin. Just mark everything to make sure nothing moves and you will be ok. See http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html for a helpful hint on using an allen key to hold the fan hub in place.

Rough version is online now:
http://colorado4wheel.com/content/KJ_TB.html

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I see light dawns in the West now that Sir Sam has posted a water pump shortcut. Great news as I had not seen the addition to his timing belt post. I'm delighted to get confirmation that replacing the front 1/2 of the water pump is an acceptable alternative to the PITA nuts to remove the whole thing.

I will note though that there is no need to remove the grill/ac condensor/intercooler to get access although if you do want to go to that trouble the access would be wonderful.

Certainly if you have the leak that portion of your post is invaluable.

tomasnc wrote:

Very informative thread

It is very informative but its got me skeered :grim:

. I'm calling to get some prices today since I entering the danger zone.

liberty2.8 wrote:

tomasnc wrote:

Very informative thread

It is very informative but its got me skeered :grim:

. I'm calling to get some prices today since I entering the danger zone.

Got a quote from dealer yesterday of $1500 for TB including water pump; $1078 for TB only without water pump. About what I figured since parts alone are about $600. Waiting on another quote from independant shop; his WAG when I called it in was $650-$700 which means he had no idea what he was getting into.

Perhaps part of my bias is I did a modified version of the "Aussie" fan shroud mod. .

I concur but being my own customer I did not mind at all; in fact I loved the result but not the hassle of getting the fan and shroud out in the first place even though I knew what I was getting into when I started.

Author:	JPinnell [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	TB Swap - give me the courage
Recent new owner of a "previously enjoyed" '05 CRD with 106K on the clock. We upgraded from a Jetta TDI with 208K to this little SUV on purpose I'm not afraid of it being a 2 yr only vehicle and an orphan as I've owned plenty of oddball VW's (Thing, Ghia, even a 914) and our household is all diesel - 94.5 PowerStroke Ford, '00 VW Golf TDI, and a Kubota. I've never done a Timing Belt although I have the VW Tools for a TDI. It was always due in the winter time or I was in a hurry and the TDI's were our commuter vehicles. I've done most of my other mechanic work over the years, brakes, shocks, axles, glowplugs, rebuilt a VW aircooled, etc. I've read through a couple of the write ups for the Jeep CRD and it appears doable. Looks like all I'm lacking is the VM.1052 and 1053 pins so a $100 in tools, plus bits from my TDI kit, and I'm covered. My VW TDI Guy hasn't done a Jeep yet either but will tool up as a couple of his other clients have the CRD too. The CRD is not our only vehicle. So $1200 to the guy I trust for a full TB/Water Pump swap? Or do it myself over a long weekend for $600 in tools and parts and put the savings to a GDE Eco Tune and hope I don't mess it up. Thanks, JP

Author:	Sir Sam [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
JPinnell wrote: Recent new owner of a "previously enjoyed" '05 CRD with 106K on the clock. We upgraded from a Jetta TDI with 208K to this little SUV on purpose I'm not afraid of it being a 2 yr only vehicle and an orphan as I've owned plenty of oddball VW's (Thing, Ghia, even a 914) and our household is all diesel - 94.5 PowerStroke Ford, '00 VW Golf TDI, and a Kubota. I've never done a Timing Belt although I have the VW Tools for a TDI. It was always due in the winter time or I was in a hurry and the TDI's were our commuter vehicles. I've done most of my other mechanic work over the years, brakes, shocks, axles, glowplugs, rebuilt a VW aircooled, etc. I've read through a couple of the write ups for the Jeep CRD and it appears doable. Looks like all I'm lacking is the VM.1052 and 1053 pins so a $100 in tools, plus bits from my TDI kit, and I'm covered. My VW TDI Guy hasn't done a Jeep yet either but will tool up as a couple of his other clients have the CRD too. The CRD is not our only vehicle. So $1200 to the guy I trust for a full TB/Water Pump swap? Or do it myself over a long weekend for $600 in tools and parts and put the savings to a GDE Eco Tune and hope I don't mess it up. Thanks, JP Hi welcome to the forum, if you have not yet read the noob guide. Towards the bottom you will find my timing belt how to writeup link....but here it is anyway: http://colorado4wheel.com/content/KJ_TB.html Its too bad your not local, I would love to take your money and do the work cheaper than your TDI guy would.

Author:	JPinnell [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
I just updated my CP and Sig . . . I'm in MO near St. Louis, so probably too far but thanks for the offer. I've been through the noob guide, read various TB write ups, it all looks doable. But then I've only owned this thing for a week and I read posts about TB failures, $60ea for rockers, etc What's a few grand between friends, right? - JP

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
The timing belt (including various "spinning" thing replacements if need be) is not too difficult just tedious as you need to be careful. About a 5hr job with an extra pair of hands being helpful. You can probably get away with just the 2 cam pins and a 6mm long shaft allen key for the flywheel pin. Just mark everything to make sure nothing moves and you will be ok. See http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html for a helpful hint on using an allen key to hold the fan hub in place. The above post also covers water pump replacement which adds significantly to the project mainly due to 1) having to remove the cam pulleys and 2) water pump bolt access. For cam removal I'd strongly recommend renting the cam holding tool from GDE unless you are REALLY confident your TDI tools will suffice. I'd guess you best allow another 5 hrs for the water pump part of the job. Either way witness mark everything you can think of.

Author:	tomasnc [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
Very informative thread

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

TB Swap - give me the courage http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=66312	Page 1 of 2

Author:	liberty2.8 [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
tomasnc wrote: Very informative thread It is very informative but its got me skeered . I'm calling to get some prices today since I entering the danger zone.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
papaindigo wrote: I'd guess you best allow another 5 hrs for the water pump part of the job. Doing the water pump my way is about an extra hours worth of work. I like my way better.

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
I see light dawns in the West now that Sir Sam has posted a water pump shortcut. Great news as I had not seen the addition to his timing belt post. I'm delighted to get confirmation that replacing the front 1/2 of the water pump is an acceptable alternative to the PITA nuts to remove the whole thing. I will note though that there is no need to remove the grill/ac condensor/intercooler to get access although if you do want to go to that trouble the access would be wonderful.

Author:	JPinnell [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
papaindigo wrote: The timing belt (including various "spinning" thing replacements if need be) is not too difficult just tedious as you need to be careful. About a 5hr job with an extra pair of hands being helpful. You can probably get away with just the 2 cam pins and a 6mm long shaft allen key for the flywheel pin. Just mark everything to make sure nothing moves and you will be ok. See http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html for a helpful hint on using an allen key to hold the fan hub in place. Sir Sam wrote: Rough version is online now: http://colorado4wheel.com/content/KJ_TB.html [/b][/size] I'd looked at the beesville farm writeup which made me think I could tackle it since I already had the VW Tools he used to remove the cam pulleys. I'd probably buy the actual cam locking pins VM.1052 and VM.1053 as opposed to grinding my own since they're only about $50ea and guaranteed to be the right profile. Sir Sam's revised writeup is VERY DETAILED and makes me think I can tackle this myself. I'll do the "Level 3" and not have to worry about anything for a long while after it's done. IDParts has a "packaged kit" now that makes all the parts hunting even easier. I've been ordering things from them since '05 for our TDI's so the quality should be there. I'll order the parts and tools and tackle this job while the wife's out of town since it's our family hauler. If it takes 2 weeks to get it all done right in the evenings it won't matter. Thanks all for the advice. - JP

Author:	Sir Sam [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
papaindigo wrote: I see light dawns in the West now that Sir Sam has posted a water pump shortcut. Great news as I had not seen the addition to his timing belt post. I'm delighted to get confirmation that replacing the front 1/2 of the water pump is an acceptable alternative to the PITA nuts to remove the whole thing. I will note though that there is no need to remove the grill/ac condensor/intercooler to get access although if you do want to go to that trouble the access would be wonderful. Just about everyone at 100k is going to have the same intercooler leak....which means you really ought to pull the intercooler, clean it, and JB weld it there.

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
Certainly if you have the leak that portion of your post is invaluable.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
papaindigo wrote: Certainly if you have the leak that portion of your post is invaluable. Keep in mind too that removing the bumper cover, grill, etc, adds about 40 mins to the teardown and the same to put it back together, so its not too much time for how much room it gives you to get the fan off. If the fan design or the shroud design were different then it would be different. But as is this is a great way to pull that stuff and then you also get to clean out the radiator and intercooler.

Author:	papaindigo [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
Perhaps part of my bias is I did a modified version of the "Aussie" fan shroud mod. when I put Kap's fixed fan in a month or so ago so that the next time I need to go in there I clip 8 wire ties on the upper part of the fan shroud and simply lift it out of the way which provides free access to the fan and front of the engine.

Author:	liberty2.8 [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
liberty2.8 wrote: tomasnc wrote: Very informative thread It is very informative but its got me skeered . I'm calling to get some prices today since I entering the danger zone. Got a quote from dealer yesterday of $1500 for TB including water pump; $1078 for TB only without water pump. About what I figured since parts alone are about $600. Waiting on another quote from independant shop; his WAG when I called it in was $650-$700 which means he had no idea what he was getting into.

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Author:	Sir Sam [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
liberty2.8 wrote: liberty2.8 wrote: tomasnc wrote: Very informative thread It is very informative but its got me skeered . I'm calling to get some prices today since I entering the danger zone. Got a quote from dealer yesterday of $1500 for TB including water pump; $1078 for TB only without water pump. About what I figured since parts alone are about $600. Waiting on another quote from independant shop; his WAG when I called it in was $650-$700 which means he had no idea what he was getting into. Man I wish you were closer so I could take your money. Timing belt jobs are easy and quick for me, wish I could do one everyday.

Author:	liberty2.8 [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
The other shop called me this morning with quote of $500 labor; he was still scrounging for parts prices when I mentioned being able to buy TB kit with waterpump from IDparts. It looks like IDparts currently does not have OEM tensioner right now but total with OEM pump and tensioner was less than $600. Total job +/- $1100 not bad.

Author:	ChesterCRD [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
Courage granted Mr. Lion Seriously, read through the plethora of write ups here, on Sir Sam's site, GDE's site, etc until you're comfortable with the process. Take it a step at a time and if you can get past the fan removal (early step) you should be fine. Good Luck!

Author:	Sir Sam [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
papaindigo wrote: Perhaps part of my bias is I did a modified version of the "Aussie" fan shroud mod. . Ya I hear ya, but keep in mind customers don't always like it when you go "improving" their vehicle by hacking it apart to make it easier to work on.

Author:	papaindigo [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
I concur but being my own customer I did not mind at all; in fact I loved the result but not the hassle of getting the fan and shroud out in the first place even though I knew what I was getting into when I started.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TB Swap - give me the courage
papaindigo wrote: I concur but being my own customer I did not mind at all; in fact I loved the result but not the hassle of getting the fan and shroud out in the first place even though I knew what I was getting into when I started. I agree, at the end of the day the fan shroud design is simply asinine, and means all sorts of extra work for everyone involved.