LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Diesel POWER!!!

Why is it that the only people that like or give good reviews of the CRD are people that own and drive them?

This is the gist of the email response I received from the publisher of DieselPower magazine, to my email expressing my dissatisfaction with the dork comments and lack of substantive reviewing style on the CRD. I think his answer shows where the backing comes from for David to use his style of writing. Again my issue is not so much that they didn't like the CRD, but rather the cheap shot style of review they perform. It may be that Diesel Power is going to become another "4 Wheel Pickup Truck Big Rig" private treehouse mentality style magazine. I hope not, but only time will tell. I guess the publisher feels that what he wants is what the readers want and will pay for. His perogative as publisher. My perogative to cancel.

"Having driven Four Wheeler's long term CRD I'd have to agree with David.
Hate the car but love the happy little Italian tractor engine inside.

The current version of the magazine is actually exactly what I had in mind
when we launched last year. I can't complain about Carl's work during 2005,
but what David's doing now is way closer to the mission statement."

In my response to dk, I offered suggestions on articles that would better fill the word count than pot shots at the CRD's weatherstripping, dork looks and so on. I told him that as a paying subscriber, I would like to see how-to articles on installing boost gauges, pyrometers, transmission coolers and dyno tests with hp/tq tests. I cc'd the publisher, who basically said he liked the direction dp was headed. Unlike yourself, I didn't feel the April 7, 2006 CRD review was positive on the CRD, except in a grudging way on the engine. Even then, it was only to suggest that it was a waste to use it in the Liberty and it would be better used in a more masculine vehicle.

My final point to him was that to use this kind of review style, filled with unsubstantiated remarks, rather than factual basis, wasn't exactly a smart idea when some of your paying subscribers own these vehicles.

My other action has been to email advertisers in DP to ask them if they are targeting the Liberty market, to read the review in the 04-06 issue and see if they think it will supports their efforts to sell to that market. Cancelling a subscription won't affect DP one way or the other. I just don't feel like paying to see this kind of sloppy style of review. I can get that all day long at CR - even then CR used their version of facts to base their claims on - but their facts are not reflective of any reported user experience. So in some small regard, CR is slighty ahead of dk's style of writing. Imo, Dk's style of writing is little more than a written version of backyard gossip.

So, you woke up to the fact that I didn't like DP's new style of review!! Excellent. But what you think is proved one way or the other doesn't change the style DP is now adopting under their new editor. Since I already posted about the constructive alternatives I suggested and and their response, I won't reiterate, but I did share that conversation with their advertisers. Why not? It's one of the great things about the Internet. News and print media have functioned for years as if their outlets are their personal opinion one-way broadcast stream. Now we can respond to both them and their financial backers with our own opinions. It's called freedom of speech. If you like the new style, contact David Kennedy and encourage him to write even more. Better yet, follow your own advice and write some articles for him :-)

If you like DP the way it is, buy it - In fact, buy 2 while you're at it - I'm sure they could use an extra subscription :-)

Author:	Ripple [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Diesel POWER!!!
nice 4 page layout about the CRD (limited) in diesel power. be sure to check it out! here is one of their raod tests http://dieselpowermag.com/features/trucks/0505dp_jeep/ lots of other stuff on their website too.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Even though I have a subscription to Diesel Power magazine, the local B&N gets the issues 3 weeks ahead of my delivery. I recently looked at the April 7th issue, where they did a road test of the 06 Liberty CRD. For background, David Kennedy, the new editor, took over from the previous editor, but his previous employment was at a well known Jeep 4 Wheel magazine that used to bash the Liberty badly. Well, the bashing came along with the new editor. Comments like, "I feel like a dork driving a Liberty", and others along that line show that the new editor cannot get past his insecurities requiring a vehicle to look a specific way before he can "feel" like a man. I was unimpressed with his review. I am not paying for a subscription to read about his personal issues, expressed as style bashing on the Liberty. I am emailing David my disappointment in his lack of professionalism and focus shift to a diesel pickup truck magazine. I'm not interested in his fashion statements on Jeep styling - I want real diesel reviews, information and objective analysis. I hope Davids personal style of writing doesn't attract more of this kind of "review." My edit - original post had wrong editor's name, it is david kennedy. Changed name to correct.

Author:	KJMedic [ Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:56 am ]
Post subject:
Why is it that the only people that like or give good reviews of the CRD are people that own and drive them?

Author:	torqueofthetown [ Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:05 am ]
Post subject:
Ranger, are you talking about the article in the first issue or the new issue coming out?

Author:	valkraider [ Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:35 am ]
Post subject:
KJMedic wrote: Why is it that the only people that like or give good reviews of the CRD are people that own and drive them? We bought it because we liked it...

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Diesel POWER!!! http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6682	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Ranger1 [ Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:
KJMedic wrote: Why is it that the only people that like or give good reviews of the CRD are people that own and drive them? Fortunately, that statement isn't quite accurate... if you would investigate the web, or past postings on this and other KJ sites, there are good reviews on the KJ CRD. An objective review, good or bad, is fine with me... but what Kennedy wrote in this latest review was tainted with his personal fears and styling cues, wasting valuable print space on what could have been some useful data. The first Diesel Power mini review of the CRD wasn't exactly favorable, as they liked the engine and disliked the vehicle in general. The first review was factual in their viewpoints and they provided reasons other than personal dislikes for their analysis. Thats perfectly acceptable. For example, they didn't care for the ground clearance when off roading in sand. Point well taken. They didn't like how the 545RFE handled when in sand off road. I can't validate that personally because I haven't been in sand offroad, but its a reason for a viewpoint other than classifying the KJ as a vehicle for dorks. Kevins viewpoint was a muted slam on the style of the KJ, with a few good points about the engine thrown in. My response to Kennedy was that all diesel owners are in a hostile environment from CARB/EPA, with bad emissions policy mixed in with politics. Meanwhile, diesel cars are virtually non-existent in the US due to this selective discrimination against diesels via EPA policy. The Liberty CRD was an important step in validating market acceptance, and CRD technology in light duty vehicles. Imported oil is slowly bankrupting our economy, while we sit on our hands in regard to energy policy. So Diesel Power magazine, instead of using their position to point out the merits of light duty diesel in regard to economy, power, emissions in total, wastes valuable print space on personal rants about ego and fear of what one looks like driving a Liberty. So my dissatisfaction is with wasting what could be a valuable venue for building mindset and educating the public on emissions policy in regard to the totality of whats coming out of the tailpipe. To his credit, David replied back that he wrote the article to see if people really cared about the CRD... if you ask any first year journalism student, they'll tell you that setting the tone of any article, whether it be via the large headline print, or derogatory slants, is what readers remember more than the words themselves. The issue I'm referring to is the upcoming April 7, 2006 issue. It probably hasn't hit the newstands yet - I know I haven't received my subscription yet.

Author:	Ripple [ Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:
I received mine yesterday in the mail. In my mind any plublicity is good plublicity, they are alot of GOOD pictures of the CRD in full color, the words are secondary. most of their tech article seem to be about buying old, used up diesel trucks, that part kind of sucks. I'll still read it until a better mag comes out, or this one gets worse. I really want an article on modding a CRD KJ for power, mileage and towing improvements.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:01 am ]
Post subject:
This is the gist of the email response I received from the publisher of DieselPower magazine, to my email expressing my dissatisfaction with the dork comments and lack of substantive reviewing style on the CRD. I think his answer shows where the backing comes from for David to use his style of writing. Again my issue is not so much that they didn't like the CRD, but rather the cheap shot style of review they perform. It may be that Diesel Power is going to become another "4 Wheel Pickup Truck Big Rig" private treehouse mentality style magazine. I hope not, but only time will tell. I guess the publisher feels that what he wants is what the readers want and will pay for. His perogative as publisher. My perogative to cancel. "Having driven Four Wheeler's long term CRD I'd have to agree with David. Hate the car but love the happy little Italian tractor engine inside. The current version of the magazine is actually exactly what I had in mind when we launched last year. I can't complain about Carl's work during 2005, but what David's doing now is way closer to the mission statement."

Author:	oldnavy [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:03 am ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: This is the gist of the email response I received from the publisher of DieselPower magazine, to my email expressing my dissatisfaction with the dork comments and lack of substantive reviewing style on the CRD. I think his answer shows where the backing comes from for David to use his style of writing. Again my issue is not so much that they didn't like the CRD, but rather the cheap shot style of review they perform. It may be that Diesel Power is going to become another "4 Wheel Pickup Truck Big Rig" private treehouse mentality style magazine. I hope not, but only time will tell. I guess the publisher feels that what he wants is what the readers want and will pay for. His perogative as publisher. My perogative to cancel. "Having driven Four Wheeler's long term CRD I'd have to agree with David. Hate the car but love the happy little Italian tractor engine inside. The current version of the magazine is actually exactly what I had in mind when we launched last year. I can't complain about Carl's work during 2005, but what David's doing now is way closer to the mission statement." Happy little tractor engine? Man he politely told you where to stick didn't he.

Author:	LibertyCRD [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:59 am ]
Post subject:
What I'd like to know is, what's wrong with a tractor?? A tractor engine sounds like the perfect match for an off-road rig to me. What it boils down to is they are still blind and view the Liberty as a "car". You have no idea how mad I get about that. If you don't like it...fine. Your opinion. But don't call it a car.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Yes, The publisher definately has his own ideas of what paying subscribers want to hear - it appears to me it's all about what he wants. I made the mistake of thinking he was concerned with what his subscribers were interested in. I cancelled my subscription this morning when I saw that the attitude comes from the top down. In my opinion, and it is opinion only, is that he doesn't have a clue or doesn't care about producing a magazine that reaches all of his subscriber base. Unless they want to appeal largely to pickup truck engine builders, 4 wheelers, rock crawlers and join the endless list of similar dust gathering magazines on bookstands. I told him I felt like it was a bait and switch tatic, using the first year editor with a much higher level of professionalism, finally offering a subscription and then bringing in the exclusive treehouse club mentality editor. But such is life, I'm over the disappointment. My expectations of Diesel Power were apparently too high. No point in wasting any more time on him or his publication.

Author:	marauderer [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:46 am ]
Post subject:	Advertising is Advertising
First let me establish myself as I am new on this list and only have a few posts. I have owned diesel vehicles since 1982. Up till now in the US that means it is a cult like following. I do my own work and maintenance. I like diesels and feel the article in dp was positive for the CRD and will email dk and let him know that he needs more articles on the CRD as it is a growing group and new subscribers. Cancelling one or two subscriptions isn't going to get their attention. The possiblity of a few thousand new subscribers will get their attention. If you drive something different, like a diesel, you need to have thick skin. Ask Old Navy how many times he has had snide remarks about his TDI's and other rides. It doesn't bother me because most is from ignorance. Some have been from stupidity but most from ignorance. Once educated most people are more favorable to my cause and if they aren't so be it. You can't please all the people all of the time I also drag race motorcycles and have a shaft drive instead of a chain. Man, talk about comments until they see it run. It shuts their mouths really fast. I love the look on their face, especially when we win and put them on the trailer. The Liberty CRD has the foundation of being a great little 4X4 and the more it is out going on the Jeep runs etc the better it will be. So, get a hold of dk and offer to write an article about something that improves the CRD and help get more subscribers to the dp mag. If there can be a regular column in one of the mags. like dp it really will help the cause and show folks that the CRD is mainstream and they are missing out not having one. Especially with the upgraded 3.0 CRD motor they are considering putting in the Rubicon Unlimited. I think this is a great list and hope to have my CRD in the next month.

Author:	Ranger1 [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:59 am ]
Post subject:
In my response to dk, I offered suggestions on articles that would better fill the word count than pot shots at the CRD's weatherstripping, dork looks and so on. I told him that as a paying subscriber, I would like to see how-to articles on installing boost gauges, pyrometers, transmission coolers and dyno tests with hp/tq tests. I cc'd the publisher, who basically said he liked the direction dp was headed. Unlike yourself, I didn't feel the April 7, 2006 CRD review was positive on the CRD, except in a grudging way on the engine. Even then, it was only to suggest that it was a waste to use it in the Liberty and it would be better used in a more masculine vehicle. My final point to him was that to use this kind of review style, filled with unsubstantiated remarks, rather than factual basis, wasn't exactly a smart idea when some of your paying subscribers own these vehicles. My other action has been to email advertisers in DP to ask them if they are targeting the Liberty market, to read the review in the 04-06 issue and see if they think it will supports their efforts to sell to that market. Cancelling a subscription won't affect DP one way or the other. I just don't feel like paying to see this kind of sloppy style of review. I can get that all day long at CR - even then CR used their version of facts to base their claims on - but their facts are not reflective of any reported user experience. So in some small regard, CR is slighty ahead of dk's style of writing. Imo, Dk's style of writing is little more than a written version of backyard gossip.

Author:	marauderer [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: In my response to dk, I offered suggestions on articles that would better fill the word count than pot shots at the CRD's weatherstripping, dork looks and so on. I told him that as a paying subscriber, I would like to see how-to articles on installing boost gauges, pyrometers, transmission coolers and dyno tests with hp/tq tests. I cc'd the publisher, who basically said he liked the direction dp was headed. Unlike yourself, I didn't feel the April 7, 2006 CRD review was positive on the CRD, except in a grudging way on the engine. Even then, it was only to suggest that it was a waste to use it in the Liberty and it would be better used in a more masculine vehicle. My final point to him was that to use this kind of review style, filled with unsubstantiated remarks, rather than factual basis, wasn't exactly a smart idea when some of your paying subscribers own these vehicles. My other action has been to email advertisers in DP to ask them if they are targeting the Liberty market, to read the review in the 04-06 issue and see if they think it will supports their efforts to sell to that market. Cancelling a subscription won't affect DP one way or the other. I just don't feel like paying to see this kind of sloppy style of review. I can get that all day long at CR - even then CR used their version of facts to base their claims on - but their facts are not reflective of any reported user experience. So in some small regard, CR is slighty ahead of dk's style of writing. Imo, Dk's style of writing is little more than a written version of backyard gossip. It seems to me your approach had a chip on your shoulder and were combative. Did you offer to write an article about the CRD and some of the more positive attributes that it has?

Author:	Ranger1 [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:
Annual CRD get together? Not that I know of, but it sounds like a good idea. Since the CRD really didn't start shipping in any volume until last March or April, its just coming up on a year for some early owners. Yes, I admit, I do get carried away on the subject of journalists reporting on diesel technology, especially when most of it is rehashed press releases, or worse, another rehashed GM story of the 80's diesels. But I see most of what is reported in automotive publications on diesel technology as wasted opportunity to effectively educate and debate our EPA emissions policy. I am concerned that a few individuals within CARB and the EPA can so effectively stifle alternatives like cleaner diesels with a mixture of bad science and politics, while billions of dollars stream out of our economy annually. When EPA emissions policy is largely NOx focused, while ignoring the controversy among scientists that NOx being a prime contributor to smog or ozone pollution is being contradicted by the weekend effect, where smog levels go up while NOx goes down. Concurrent with that, the role of CO2 in terms of auto emissions, which most agree is a prime ozone or smog contributor, is not restricted with the same vigor. But gasolene engines produce more than diesels on CO2 and HC emissions. Why no equally restrictive emissions policy on CO2 for gasolene engines? Or better yet, why not follow a more gradually restrictive policy of NOx emissions as the technolgy is developed, and the same for CO2? Whether I like it or not, public policy is strongly influcenced by public opinions, which are largely governed by what we read, see or hear.... hence my angst with publications like CR reporting 11mpg on the CRD, or obligatory boilerplate GM 80's diesel screwup paragraphs, or the Union of Concerned Scientists lobbying so effectively against tax credits for diesels in tier 2, bin 10 while promoting them for electric hybrids or DP focusing on cosmetic issues while ignoring issues such as the even more restrictive diesel EPA rules for 2009. It reflects a desire to deemphasize diesel technology from a few and eliminate that choice for us, without equal debate or public visibility. Meanwhile, the vast majority of auto enthusiasts have virtually no say or input into these decisions being made for us, and heavily influenced by EPA, CARB, and automotive publications who seemingly don't allow these issues to be presented in a well thought out approach. It concerns me because it affects our choices and our ability to use energy more efficiently. Ok, Soapbox mode off, back to enjoying my CRD

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Ranger1 [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:
So, you woke up to the fact that I didn't like DP's new style of review!! Excellent. But what you think is proved one way or the other doesn't change the style DP is now adopting under their new editor. Since I already posted about the constructive alternatives I suggested and and their response, I won't reiterate, but I did share that conversation with their advertisers. Why not? It's one of the great things about the Internet. News and print media have functioned for years as if their outlets are their personal opinion one-way broadcast stream. Now we can respond to both them and their financial backers with our own opinions. It's called freedom of speech. If you like the new style, contact David Kennedy and encourage him to write even more. Better yet, follow your own advice and write some articles for him If you like DP the way it is, buy it - In fact, buy 2 while you're at it - I'm sure they could use an extra subscription

Author:	marauderer [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Ranger1 wrote: So, you woke up to the fact that I didn't like DP's new style of review!! Excellent. But what you think is proved one way or the other doesn't change the style DP is now adopting under their new editor. Since I already posted about the constructive alternatives I suggested and and their response, I won't reiterate, but I did share that conversation with their advertisers. Why not? It's one of the great things about the Internet. News and print media have functioned for years as if their outlets are their personal opinion one-way broadcast stream. Now we can respond to both them and their financial backers with our own opinions. It's called freedom of speech. If you like the new style, contact David Kennedy and encourage him to write even more. Better yet, follow your own advice and write some articles for him If you like DP the way it is, buy it - In fact, buy 2 while you're at it - I'm sure they could use an extra subscription Ranger1, One subscription is fine, Thank you very much. I am a bit leary of contacting dk after you have so elequently greased the skids for me so well. Yes, it is still the USA and hopefully we will always have fredom of speech. I didn't say I liked the new style but it's ok to put words in my mouth. Maybe one of these days we will actually have a chance to meet and share a conversation. You sound like an interesting person. Is there an annual Liberty CRD get together that you know of??

Author:	marauderer [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Wow!!! Your soapbox tirad is right on. i am beginning to understand your passion against wrong. And what the politicians are doing these days is mostly wrong. Sad to say that but it's true. Glad you got up on your soapbox but, I am also glad your down off it and enjoying your CRD. I hope to have mine in less than a month.