Cold weather starting

mtbdemon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm **Posts:** 179

This is my first real post, so be gentle.
I just bought a 2006 CRD which I will be picking up in the coming weeks. Its current home is in the deep south and I live up here in the NW (Oregon) where I do a lot of snow skiing. Is there anything I should be aware of in using this vehicle in cold weather, namely when starting after a full day in 10 degree weather?

Thanks,
Ken

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:53 pm

Let me start by saying welcome to lost. I am in Pennsylvania and it has only gotten that cold here a few days since I had the CRD. I would say you have not much of anything to worry about if the glow plugs are in good working order and you have a good battery. when it was that cold the engine did run rough and was made more diesel sounds than normal until it warmed up some. A bit more smoke too since cold you are not getting the best most complete combustion, that said it has always started for me except when the red top battery failed. you may want to use the block heater that it will have to make cold starts smoother if your winter is often that cold, an hour or two before you leave in the morning should be enough and can be done by plugging in to a timer.

Hope you love your CRD

naturist · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:17 am

You will need a good battery, and to make sure your fuel is properly winterized. A shot of Powerservice anti-gel is a good idea with every fill up. Your new ride does have a block heater installed, although the power cord may not have been untied from the dipstick tube. A couple hours on a timer in the morning before you head for work is all that takes.

I've had no trouble starting my 2005 in temps down in the single digits. And I've a VW Jetta TDI that I've had occasion to start after a night at minus 33 F. It has no block heater, but fired right up.

The main problem folks have with diesels in temps below +10˚F is fuel gelling if it's not properly winterized.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:40 pm

Temperatures in the region of -20˚F are not uncommon here and I've never had issues starting and have never used the block heater. It maybe takes an extra second or two turning over and sounds rough as hell for the first 10 seconds but after that it's fine.

Diesel bought locally will already have the correct additives. Make sure your coolant mix is up to strength.

Hexus · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:11 pm

mtbdemon wrote:

This is my first real post, so be gentle.
I just bought a 2006 CRD which I will be picking up in the coming weeks. Its current home is in the deep south and I live up here in the NW (Oregon) where I do a lot of snow skiing. Is there anything I should be aware of in using this vehicle in cold weather, namely when starting after a full day in 10 degree weather?

Thanks,
Ken

Ken - Welcome to LOST and welcome to the CRD Owner's Club.

First things first, read the Noob Guide, do everything it says. If you cannot 100% verify that a timing belt change has been done and the vehicle is anywhere near 100k miles then make that your #1 priority.

In that part of the world, I would probably stick with the recommended 0w-40w oil from September/March and switch to a 5w-40 from April/August.

Buy a Fumoto Oil Drain plug, you'll thank me later.

I originally lived in Cleveland when I bought my CRD, since it's been with me to Jacksonville, FL, Cincinnati, OH, and now it abides with me in Nashville, TN.

Only in Cleveland would I have to plug it in past November, I think I plugged it in 3 times in Cincinnati on days where the high was going to be 0 degrees but I never had to plug it in while living in Florida or here in Nashville.

Your standard block heater that came with the vehicle is perfectly sufficient, and if you have a garage to park it in you don't even have to worry about that, it will keep it plenty warm.

You can buy a timer if you like, and set it for 2 hours before you wake if you like, but leaving it plugged in overnight won't do any damage to anything and it doesn't use that much power (you won't notice it on your bill unless you REALLY look in the winter time).

I would stop at a Truck Stop (Love's, Flying J, etc.) and get a big bottle of the anti-gel and keep it in the webbing on the right side of your rear compartment and add a shot every time you fill up. I've forgotten many times even as low as -20 and have never had the fuel gel up on me, but it definitely should be used as soon as you remember.

Enjoy, welcome to our little group, and hopefully it'll be a dependable vehicle for you for a long time.

cevans · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:48 pm **Posts:** 278

Jeep has been starting better since I did the glow plug reflash (via GDE) and installed the steel plugs.

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:59 pm

Should I get glow plugs as a preemptive for the coming winter? Would the block heater help postpone the failing of glow plugs? I have 93K on my Jeep now. Here in my part of Maryland it doesn't frequently get in the teens at all, so I don't know what the wear rate is on these.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:24 pm

I have had mine in Michigan since new, and I use the block heater as soon as it gets into the 30s. I just don't like the rough sound at cold start, and I figure I'm saving the battery and the starter a tiny bit. I have a 30 amp timer from wallmart, and it turns the heater on 2 hours before I leave for work. I just plug it in when I get home.

I wouldn't mess with the glow plugs unless a check engine light comes on. You'll know if they're failing. My fuel economy tanks from 26mpg average to 22 mpg because of the cold weather additives they add at the pump. Power Service is supposed to help with a few things, and I use that when I remember, but I've put 110k on this Jeep following the above practice over 7 years and I'm ok.

If you find yourself using the 4wd, be sure to hold your shifter for a few seconds on the "4WD part time" before you shift all the way into "4wd Full Time." The chain takes a moment to move over and if you go too fast you'll get it stuck in "4WD Part Time" and you'll get wheel hop.

Just enjoy.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

When new with fresh glow plugs, I had no problem starting it at -20 deg F. With 110k miles and a bad #3 glow plug, it takes longer but still reliable in cold weater.

A good battery is a must and if you wish to not have any worries, then I'd get new (steel) plugs and the reflash.

I strongly recommend a diesel fuel additive just in case. Not only will it improve winter fuel lubricity it will help with extra anti-gel protection.

I'f I'm out in the middle of nowhere which often occurs when I use my rig to tow my snowmobiles, I carry a cheap $89 (with coupon found in many magazines) harbor freight 2 stroke generator in case engine won't start. The cheap generator is enough for the engine block heater and can also power a small battery charger at the same time. I also carry starter fluid (mainly for the generator) but in an emergency, I will squirt a very small squirt into the intake stream while engine is being cranked (very small squirt). I know starter fluid can cause destructive engine damage if misapplied. A friend of mine who drive an old delivery truck says his diesel has an ether start system and the secret is very small squirt of fluid.

naturist · **Posted:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:56 pm

jkbkwarner wrote:

Should I get glow plugs as a preemptive for the coming winter? Would the block heater help postpone the failing of glow plugs? I have 93K on my Jeep now. Here in my part of Maryland it doesn't frequently get in the teens at all, so I don't know what the wear rate is on these.

No, and No.

If the glow plugs fail, they will do so one at a time, and the engine will start even if only 2 of the 4 are working. You'll get a check engine light and shaky starts well before you need to do something about it. Given the cost of new glow plugs, and the fact that they usually last a long time, and the notice there's a problem long before action is needed, I wouldn't replace them preemptively.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:55 pm

jkbkwarner wrote:

Should I get glow plugs as a preemptive for the coming winter? Would the block heater help postpone the failing of glow plugs? I have 93K on my Jeep now. Here in my part of Maryland it doesn't frequently get in the teens at all, so I don't know what the wear rate is on these.

There are 7V Steel glow plugs on the market if you don't want to jump onto the 5V GP band wagon.
Since VW TDIs went through all the crap with their 5V Steel Glow Plugs and ended up with 7 V steel Glow Plugs, I did not want to make the jump.
A Sears P1 is the one mod that has helped the most for Cold Weather Starting, I can't believe how much faster the P1cranks at -15F compared with a fresh Optima. Since I travel for my job, I only get to plug in at home. My Jeep CRD has to sit at the Airport for as much as 4 nights or sit in a Motel parking lot overnight with no option of plugging in.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:40 pm

The nature of ski resorts is that they are located on mountain tops. I board at a local resort that is accessed by a steep county road. Never had any trouble getting started end of day and I gear down to 2nd to get back down the road.

You will not go out to the car for lunch and warm it up. My VW TDI's and this VM CRD do not warm to operating temp at idle. This winter, I'm going to remove the fan and pack the usual plastic bags, etc in front of the radiator. FIA blankets might do well.

I lose engine heat descending a pass (going and coming) and never get the engine warm coming down from Powder Mtn. Of course, the torque during climbs is nice.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

Not to offend anyone, but my Liberty has a belt driven viscous heater which DOES warm up the engine at idle but not to normal operating temperature but enough to make a difference.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:41 am

I sense a bit of apples vs oranges in this string. Cold weather "starting" involves 2 related but somewhat separate issues:
1. getting the engine cranked up and running and
2. getting the engine to operating temperature and cabin heat working.

Cranking up and running requires a) a good healthy battery with plenty of CCAs (800 or better IMHO) as diesel fuel fires by compresssion and diesel engines are high compression and hence hard to turn over; 2) fuel that is delivered to the cylinders in a condition that is conducive to firing which means within an acceptable temperature range relative to engine temp (hence glow plugs) and not too thick (hence "winter" blend fuel and anti-gell additives especially if running biodiesel). The engine block heater can help with cold starting, although it doesn't do much for fuel temp issue other than indirectly as the engine block is warmer at startup and warms up faster. The viscous heater does nothing to help first cranking up and running. As to proactive glow plug replacement - I kind of lean toward doing so but the metal glow plugs I have are still sitting on my workbench uninstalled.

Gettiing a running engine to operating temperature and cabin heat working requires a) a fully functional cooling system (e.g. not clogged by use of non-spec antifreeze) and a fully functional thermostat (if your OEM tstat is failing full operating temp cannot be reached in cold weather); b) can be helped by using the block heater for ca. 2 hrs before start go give the system a head start so to speak (I don't have a clue what temp the block heater raises the coolant too but cabin heat is noticable instantly upon start up at ambient temps into the teens F); and c) may be helped somewhat by the viscous heater although that system's primary purpose is to get a bit of cabin heat started earlier that the engine would otherwise provide which is why flow from the viscous goes directly to the cabin heater core. How well the viscous improves cabin heat I don't know, mine has been disabled for 2 winters and I notice no difference but N. FL winters only get cold occasionally. Given the coolant flow circuit and how the viscous works (friction of rotating discs in a fluid of somesort transmitting heat to coolant flowing thru the viscous housing) I strongly doubt that the viscous makes much if any contribution to getting the engine to operating temp. For what it's worth per GDE the viscous does not run above an air temp shut of 54 F or a coolant temp of 162 F; lower if you have a GDE tune. Translation the viscous might add some heat to the engine block at idle but I'm not sitting at idle waiting for it. Much better to use block heater where possible; other wise crank up, idle for long enough for oil to pump up (say 30 sec-1 minute if really cold) and drive conservatively until temp gauge shows signs of life.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:23 am

Adding a little to pappa's "apples and Oranges" reply :CAMPING:

Apples.
Diesel engines are cold blooded and do not produce much waste heat. So in the north when you stop for a traffic light a diesel engine that has reached operating temperature can and will cool down when the cabin heater is on. And that results in lower temperature cabin heat. This is not just a CRD thing, VW tdi's are the same. VW uses a second set of glow plugs in the coolant instead of a viscius heater. Both are a far second as far as the heater goes.

Oranges
Batteries. The Sears P1 is far better then the original Red Top battery. The "full charge" voltage of a good Red Top per the Optima site is only 12.6 volts and that's low :juggle:

Banannas

The P1 is not cheap :wink:

dirtmover · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:16 pm

Drewd wrote:

Not to offend anyone, but my Liberty has a belt driven viscous heater which DOES warm up the engine at idle but not to normal operating temperature but enough to make a difference.

I'm not sure which part of the continent you come from but below 0F the viscous heater, while technically contributing heat, is about as effective as trying to heat a house with a candle.

Cold weather starting

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