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Blowing smoke at idle
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69880		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  shelbydz [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Blowing smoke at idle
Sitting at a light this morning and I started to smell burning oil. I looked around, thinking it was another car, but there was a big puff of smoke out the tailpipe. I wasn't revving the engine or doing anything, just sitting there with my foot on the brake. When I left the light, I noticed a bit more out the back; similar to what I'll see when accelerating.

A few lights later, I saw the same smoke, but out the passenger side of the engine bay. I pulled over and popped the hood. I didn't see any leaking oil. I did notice that the AC lines were cold and dripping condensation all over the passenger side of the engine bay; although I think this is unrelated. My AC was turned off in the Jeep.

My EGR light has been on for a week or so, I thought it was a fuel issue. Is this something I should be worried about? Do I have too much oil pressure or is something more sinister going on?

Thanks!
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
Random hopefully somewhat helpful thoughts.
1. AC compressor will run even if switched "off" if your vent setting is defrost, mix or floor modes per owner's manual. I don't know if dripping condensation means anything, likely not but I'm not a AC person and simply have never looked at the lines when the system is functioning.
2. Passenger side of engine bay "smoke" - carefully check oil level, obviously, then look for possible leak in turbo feed and return lines and I'd pull the airbox to turbo hose and check for a split just in front of turbo leaking oil on something hot. Also look for small split in coolant hose which can produce "smoke" (had that happen on a different vehicle)
Author:  shelbydz [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
I had the defrost on, so that explains the AC. Thanks.

I'll check these things out tonight. I didn't have a flashlight to really see the turbo, but I didn't see any oil dripping. Will post back with more!

Thanks,
Author:  MRausch82 [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
Keep an eye on your engine oil level... could be the turbo failing.... What oil and change interval are you using?
Author:  shelbydz [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
I've been changing my oil every 6000. I checked it a day or two ago and it was still 'full'. I can pull the air hoses off the turbo and check the spindle just to be sure.
Author:  MRausch82 [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
shelbydz wrote:
I've been changing my oil every 6000. I checked it a day or two ago and it was still 'full'. I can pull the air hoses off the turbo and check the spindle just to be sure.

What kind of oil?? Check it again. If it is smoking, it'll go through oil fast. Read some old posts on turbo failures and symptoms. You can ruin an engine in very short order.....
Author:  shelbydz [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
MRausch82 wrote:
What kind of oil?? Check it again. If it is smoking, it'll go through oil fast. Read some old posts on turbo failures and symptoms. You can ruin an engine in very short order.....


Using mobile one synthetic diesel oil (API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/ SM/SL/SJ
ACEA E7, 5w/30)
This stuff: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx#
Author:  naturist [ Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
The oil you linked to is one of the two oils originally specified, so you are good on that score. At the same time, it shouldn't smoke, not at idle, and not when you pull away from a stop light, at least not so you can see it in day light, although you might be able to see it in the headlights of the guy behind you after dark.

Split air hose is common on these. If you find the oil supply line to the turbo is leaking, replace it, don't mess around. That one goes from a small leak to a major blow-out fairly quickly.

Good luck, and keep us posted with what you DO find.
Author:  shelbydz [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
I'll dig into it asap. I haven't noticed any more smoke the last day or two. I've been driving it very gently.

Could a stuck EGR cause something like this?
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
Splits or small cracks in the intercooler hoses can cause smoke but usually come with lose of power. To check OEM hoses remove from vehicle, remove woven covering, carefully inspect especially on bottom (you may have to use some sort of degreaser to clean them enough to inspect) include bending/squeezing hose to expose semi-closed cracks. While off check air box to turbo hose from tear on bottom just in front of turbo. While all that is off it should be easy to look for any oil leaks on the passenger side of the engine.
Author:  shelbydz [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
I found where the oil is coming from, but wth?! I took out the airbox and the upper IC hose. Also took off the top heat shield to make sure that the oil supply line wasn't leaking. It's not. But what I found is that the intake side of the turbo (from the air box) had oil in it. Enough that it had a drip line down the front to the underside of the Jeep. The interior of that hose had quite a bit in it too. I don't expect the turbo seals, but the crank case vent.

I crawled under the jeep and saw a trail all the way down the exhaust pipe. That explains the puff of smoke I saw, but what would cause this amount of oil into the turbo?

thx
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
CCV dumps oil into hose that runs to airbox to turbo hose, see my post just above about a tear in that hose. If torn instead of oil going thru turbo it can drip down and be blown back.
Author:  shelbydz [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
Got it. That makes sense.

How much oil should I expect right there?

thx
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
Not a lot but enough to cause a drip and a minor mess although it is possible for a bad CCV to dump more than normal. Some folks run an EHM (elephant hose mode) that plugs the fitting on the airbox to turbo hose and runs a hose down under the vehicle to atmosphere to keep the excess oil out of the turbo hoses. Other folks run a Provent or equivalent which "filters" the stuff coming out of the CCV before going to the airbox to turbo hose. This captures most of the oil in the Provent which can be drained. Those folks could tell you how much oil is normal.

PS the tear on the airbox to turbo hose is on the bottom and virtually impossible to see. IIRC you have to remove the turbo end of the intercooler hose to get to the back of the airbox to turbo hose to remove it and of course you have to remove the CCV to airbox>turbo hose to pull the latter out of the vehicle. On reinstall make sure the airbox end is all the way up touching the MAF sensor before clamping or you will (I know) crush the plastic airbox cover outlet.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
One thing that Papaindigo forgot to mention: The oil level on your dipstick may not be correct. These have been known to have a dipstick that only reads "full" when you have actually OVERFILLED the engine by some amount. The result is that the CCV (which doesn't 'fail' so much as it just always sucks) blows extra oil mist out into the turbo's intake, where it coats EVERYTHING past the turbo. This is why your intake hoses rupture. If you also have the EGR connected and functioning, you ARE slowly choking off your own intake manifold with oily soot. What happens when you mix dust and oil? You get crud that sticks to EVERYTHING.

The solution is fairly simple: When doing an oil change, use the slightly-larger-but-very-acceptable Mobil One M1-301 filter, and your oil fill is now 7 quarts exactly. On your next oil change, let it sit and drain on a level surface (don't use jacks or ramps if you can help it) while you have a sandwich or so do something else for like an hour. That will get every drop possible out, then refill with 7 quarts exactly and the M1-301 filter. Run the engine for 20-30 seconds to circulate the oil and fill the filter, then leave it for another 30 minutes. NOW, check the oil, and scratch the dipstick where your new "full" line is.

The CCV is designed with a rubber flap that closes off the airflow ONLY when the turbo is sucking hard on the engine air filter and developing strong boost. At low boost or idle, the CCV is free to flow as much air as it wants. What is odd to me, is that when the engine is under high boost, I would think the crank case pressure would be higher, and you might WANT the ccv to flow more to prevent a problem with the head gasket... But that is not how it is designed. The outlet hole in the CCV is also fairly small, maybe 1/4" wide by 1/2" long in the center of the puck. The oil mist collects in the front of the turbo from the CCV hose, and rots out the natural-rubber airbox-to-turbo hose. This is why you got that oil leak and minor smoke. Big smoke and a sudden loss of power? Shut the engine off quick and check the oil level, that is your only indication of a turbo failure, before the engine starves for oil.
Author:  shelbydz [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Blowing smoke at idle
This sounds spot on. If you look at the history of my jeep (which I'm sure every one remembers :D ) I burnt out a turbo and then ruptured the intercooler hoses shortly thereafter.

I think this particular issue was a loose air intake hose. I clamped it down and will keep an eye on it. However, there is the long term problem that you brought up of oil quantity. I'll put the larger filter on next oil change and put 7qts in. That's awesome.

I could also block off the EGR valve, right? Will that throw an CEL?

Is there a link to the elephant hose mod? I didn't find one, but I would think it's just disconnecting the hose from the ccv, venting it to the atmosphere, then blocking off the connection on the airbox hose.

Thanks for all the help guys.
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