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Getting my head pulled
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71913		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Getting my head pulled
Since I am 99.9% sure that I am getting my head pulled to get #4 Glow Plug out, I am looking for things I should get done at this 89K mile mark (probably at least 96K with adjustment to the ODO).

1) Timing belt
2) Idlers
3) Accessory Belt
4) Intercooler Hoses (OEMs are weeping)
5) OEM Thermostat
6) Fan (Still up in the air between nylon w/ clutch or straight race fan (not a flex fan))
7) Drill and tap for a boost gauge.
8) Clean Clean Clean (darn EGR)

I feel a little better reading online about breaking off Glow Plugs. It looks to be fairly common, and there are several ways to extract them.

2 things I did find out when I pulled my jeep apart. 1) The EGR looks fairly new. 2) Someone lost the alternator bracket bolt or stripped the threads on the bracket and replaced it with a regular bolt. :banghead: That is on top of finding on my transmission pan that the factory snapped a pan bolt and just used RTV to hold it there to make it look good.
Author:  striperman36 [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Alternator decoupler.

Water pump

ARP Studs

Valve train inspection.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Comments:
1) Timing belt - yes - use Gates not pricey OEM
2) Idlers - yes although probably not "really" needed if solid but a good idea anyway
3) Accessory Belt - yes also Gates
4) Intercooler Hoses (OEMs are weeping) - Samcos
5) OEM Thermostat - don't bother unless temp gauge is reading low. If temp gauge is ok the tstat is easy enough to replace by simply pulling a few coolant hoses and removal of 4 bolts (use wooble 1/4" 6"+ extension drive and 1/4" drive rachet and socket, 10mm IIRC same as for other 3 bolts, to get to invisible lower rear bolt)
6) Fan (Still up in the air between nylon w/ clutch or straight race fan (not a flex fan)) - not sure what you mean by race fan. Flex fan is great but a bit noisey in town between 1500-2000 rpm; cannot really hear it on hwy. Cheapest route is to just install the Hayden fan clutch and keep the metal OEM fan; Hayden engages earlier that OEM clutch which is good and the OEM metal fan moves plenty of air although nylon may move a bit more
7) Drill and tap for a boost gauge. Love to know where you plan to put it - PM or email me please
8) Clean Clean Clean (darn EGR) - the EGR can be cleaned, see my post at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71911 but you might want to check with Keith at GDE. With your tune you may be able to pull the entire EGR assembly and discard; plugging both ends of the EGR pressure lines and rerouting coolant lines of course.

Whatever you do with your fan be sure to do a fan shroud mod, PM/email me if need be, to improve future access.

Alternator decoupler - no particular proactive need, same as tstat. If the serpentine belt tensioner is not bouncing at idle then decoupler is ok. Quality decoupler (not cheap die in 10k junk) runs about $90 while a lifetime warranty alternator from line Autozone can often be obtained for about $150, with good decoupler. Latter may be best long term bet.
Water pump - as with idlers a good idea given that you are already in there. Check Sir Sams neat easy replacement trick of only doing front 1/2 where all the moving parts are
ARP Studs - ??? I don't see where the issue of what ARP studs to use at what torque has been settled or that there is a source for head gaskets (remember they come in 3 thicknesses and you need the right one for your block/head combo) separate from the OEM kit that includes torque to yeald head bolts.
Valve train inspection. - absolutely do lifter/rocker inspection.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Papa,
The thermostat is stuck open or partially open. I have an in-hose temp fix. I had issues towing this summer, so I want a working OEM.

As far as the fan, a race fan has fixed metal blades. The faster you go, the more air it pulls. I have the Hayden with the stock. Doesn't seem to be doing the job I want. I want to remove all possible causes of the engine getting hot while towing.

http://www.etrailer.com/Radiator-Fans/Derale/D17419.html
Image

And for the boost gauge, I was told that a Dodge Cummins adapter works on our liberties. I guess the threaded holes in the intake, where you would mount the purdy cover, are the same thread, and just need the adapter. Or, I guess you could open the hole and just tap it for 1/4 npt.

http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/glowshift-boost-gauge-bolt-adapter.aspx
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69804&hilit=cummins+boost
There is another post on it somewhere, where someone showed what they got for gauges. It could have been warp2diesel


Striper, I may do the waterpump. Probably not the studs. And the alternator will be done with a replacement. As long as the replacement has the same amp rating.
Author:  jlgail4309 [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Image
He went with a electric fan from Hayden. Don't know if it better or not. But he can set were it comes on temp any way. They come in a 14 or a 17 inch two speed. But I do like the fan being out of the way.
Author:  naturist [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
I saw a message here just a couple weeks ago about a gizmo designed to squirt a cold water mist into the radiator when you push a button for an extra burst of cooling when you need it. You might consider adding something like that. Here's the link: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71766
Author:  jlgail4309 [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
You know that mist thing would be nice for the mountains passes. Give it a little shot of water on the way up. Mine will start to warm up on a hill.
Author:  CATCRD [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
ChooChooman74 wrote:
=

http://www.etrailer.com/Radiator-Fans/Derale/D17419.html
Image
=


It doesn't look like that fan will fit over the Hayden viscous clutch. Is that what you want to do? The clutch has a ~2 1/2" hub diameter that the fan needs to go over.
Author:  racertracer [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Replace the idlers for sure..... Striperman can attest to the fact that when we worked on replacing the Tbelt on RixRams CRD, the idlers weren't making any noise and they were shot.

You will never have an early warning if they go bad either, no noise was heard and the idlers wobbled.

Replace the idlers, they are rated for 100,000 miles no more no less...... and a jumped tooth because of an old worn out wobbly idler should never be allowed to occur.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
CATCRD wrote:
ChooChooman74 wrote:
=

http://www.etrailer.com/Radiator-Fans/Derale/D17419.html
Image
=


It doesn't look like that fan will fit over the Hayden viscous clutch. Is that what you want to do? The clutch has a ~2 1/2" hub diameter that the fan needs to go over.

No, this would be a straight fan, always pulling air. It will slightly hurt the MPG, but I rather make sure I have enough air going through the heat exchanger stack. It will be similar to Kaps Flex Fan Mod, but a Race Fan instead.
Author:  kjjet [ Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
If the head is pulled, the intake will be removed exposing all the rockers and lifters.
1. Check the rollers on the rockers for looseness. I thought mine looked pretty good untill i saw the new ones. At 94k I replaced all the rockers and lifters. Not worth opening up again to repair at a later date. Plus... if there is looseness the valves will not be opening as far, thus lowering fuel miles. The rockers are made of soft steel and made to break easly to prevent valve damage. My engine is now more quite than before.
2. Also as stated before you can remove the EGR and all the plumbing. Even the butterfly valve. You need none of this.
3. With the intake removed completly clean it out with brake cleaner, but be carefull not to spray the cams down with the brake cleaner removing the oil within, unless you are removing them from the intake.
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
ChooChooman74 - just to catch up on this string re. my earlier comments and others:
1. yes it's probably a good idea to replace the inline with an OEM. I've participated in the inline discussion but elected not to go that route simply because messing with the coolant system flow makes me nervous
2. frankly I don't see that there is any practical difference between the ridged blade "race" fan and the flex fan Kap used and I ran with for a while. Both dispose of the fan clutch; both need a space to push the blade forward to clear the AC clutch; both move a lot of air all the time although I suppose it's possible that the race fan will move slightly more at higher rpms where the flex blades flatten out a bit but given the rpms of flattening and the CRD rpms I strongly doubt the flex fan blades flatten much. I suspect you will hear the same drone I did in town between 1500 and 2000 rpm but nothing much on the highway. I did notice very slight overcooling when coming off a highway run (e.g. temp gauge would drop from a hair left of center to about the 176-180 mark).
3. I'll probably go the same route as viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69804&hilit=cummins+boost for a boost gauge install although you can likely get a adapter for the intake in hardware plumbing supply. I asked Kgeisler2010 about this and he indicated it's "a preexisting spot that you need to drill a small hole into (I asked but he did not recall size of drill bit) blow or vacuum shavings as they come out and carefully pull bit out to avoid shavings in intake. I'm not sure what size threads it is but I had an adapter from a Dodge Cummins that fit". The latter comment implies standard threads of some sort - I've sent Glow Shift an email asking. As to gauges Glow Shift has some good ones at a reasonable price and you might want to give serious consideration into getting a combo boost pressure & EGT gauge. Installing the EGT probe will add a bit of work but it gives you valuable information on your turbo operating temps and required cool down period.
4. given your other post about miles on your CRD go ahead and do idlers and WP while in there.
5. removal of the EGR and rerouting coolant flow may slightly help operating temp. Pulling butterfly (2 screws IIRC) from FCV will disable it.
6. there are pictures of crushed rocker rollers posted (Sir Sam I think) that you might want to look at but I don't have the link.

PS - regarding #3 above. Glow shift says the threads on that adapter are M8-1.25. I've checked and that intake hole is definitely threaded and does accept a standard metric bolt so M8-1.25 sounds correct. I suspect, but don't know that the other end is 1/8NPT. In any case if you are ordering Glow Shift gauges I'd go ahead and get this adapter as it's relatively cheap and shipping would be free with a gauge. I've already got my Glow Shift gauges so I may check the local NAPA for a M8-1.25 to 1/8NPT adapter as I can likely get same for just the cost of shipping and I know I need a 1/8NPT thread to accept the Glow Shift pressure sensor.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Talked to my friend Henry from Henry's Diesel Performance in Westport Ma. Showed him the glow plugs. He did not like the looks of #1 and #2 with quite a bit missing. More to follow. Ran trains all night, got the Liberty ready for the hook to pick her up....I am beat.
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Should have mentioned but my bad. Of course you will be able to see any glow plug caused damage, hopefully none, when you pull the head. That said if you deliberately break part of the ceramic, takes a bit of force, of one of the glow plugs you will see that a new break is shiny as opposed to older breaks which are sooty and dull. Translation if the broken tips are sooty and dull and the engine is running fine then the broken pieces departed the cylinder via the exhaust with no damage. Not uncommon; you won't believe what I feed thru the cylinder of a Simca 2000 decades ago with no damage other than divets in top of piston and firing chamber; engine was still running fine 30k miles later when I traded the vehicle.
Author:  striperman36 [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Good luck, whatever you end up deciding let us know. I have my CRD say a prayer.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Papa, to my eye, and to his, those are old breaks. Also, the ones that were broken, I had a CEL and code for. As it was running good, with the exception of the turbo dying, I am hoping for no damage.
Author:  striperman36 [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
Did Henry or you check the valve train?
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
striperman36 wrote:
Did Henry or you check the valve train?

It didn't even get towed yet. I was actually surprised to see Henry there on a "Holiday". My Jeep is on the list. It is first come, first serve. He is good, but he takes his time to get things right. That is my only issue with him is time. But, I want it done right.
Author:  naturist [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
If yer gonna do "it," do it right or go home.

I agree, @Choochooman. I'd prefer the repairs be done right, even if it takes a little longer and costs a little more. I hate like the dickens paying for the same repair twice, which is what you get with your serving of half-vast job.
Author:  striperman36 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting my head pulled
You're right, findin someone who can do the work and do it right is worth the wait. Unless you can do it yourself.
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