Could it be a "safety device" to cut the air off in case the engine starts to "run away" on it's own oil? Truck pulls are required to have both fuel and air shutoffs. Just my
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| URGENT SEGR Help Needed http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71960 |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Returned Jeep to stock for dealer warranty work. Installed SEGR bypass plug. Ran briefly. Everything seemed OK. Wife dropped it off. Does not recall seeing CEL, but dealer reported CEL. Is ordering new "EGR Flow Control Valve". What code/codes would be thrown if SEGR bypass plug is not connected correctly? If they replace the FCV and the code does not go away, it will cost me a bundle (i.e. vehicle "modified") . If the SEGR bypass plug was not installed correctly could it throw a flow control valve code (P1140? or ????)? Please advise ASAP. Thanks! DOC |
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| Author: | cerich [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
possibly the thing is working just fine and your EGR is toast... now that the SEGR is bypassed you are getting a code, put the segr back in action and the code will disappear, just as designed. I would take a deep breath and start there |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
It's the FCV they have claimed to have ordered and plan to replace. They left it outside. I plan to go there late tonight and pull codes with my scanner. DOC |
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| Author: | geordi [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
The SEGR doesn't disable the function of the FCV, so it is entirely possible that the stupid thing has failed because it is a piece of crap with plastic gears in it. Let them replace it, ask for the old one back (for your own curiosity) and don't worry about it when you re-install your SEGR. |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Well, I was finally able to get to the Jeep dealer tonight. The CEL was still displayed. My Innova 3030 scanner picked up two codes (stock ECU, SEGR bypass plug installed): PO299: Boost Pressure Sensor Positive Deviation. P0401: EGR Keith told me that the FCV code is P1140, but this was not there when I scanned it. So, I cleared the two codes. CEL went out. Codes did not immediately reset. I removed the scanner and drove 20 minutes of mixed highway/secondary roads. CEL never came on. Got back to dealership. Plugged in scanner. The P0401 was back, though no CEL was set. Presumably, the incidence rate was below that required to trigger a CEL. P0299 did not recur. Cleared the code and went for another "lap" of the same roads, but with the scanner connected. This time, no codes were set at all. I do not know if the presence of the scanner affected this. MY MAIN CONCERN is that the SEGR bypass plug is correctly connected. I find it hard to imagine that I could drive as much as I did without setting a CEL if the plug is not seated correctly in the harness, but I really do not know. Would really appreciate SEGR experts to weigh in on this. The potential NIGHTMARE here would be if the dealer replaces the EGR and they still get a P0401, go hunting, find the SEGR, void the warranty and I'm stuck with a $1000 bill for the EGR replacement. Keith indicated P0401 is caused by the EGR sticking closed. Could an improperly connected SEGR bypass plug cause this? Also, if they do replace the EGR valve, does this give them good access to the turbo to allow inspecting the CAC hoses and check the endplay and axial runout of the turbo shaft? Thanks so much as always, DOC |
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| Author: | Turbo Tim [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
If the SEGR plug was not installed correctly, you would have two failures immediately. The FCV and the EGR would both be an open circuit. I think the reason you are getting the EGR code is it is stuck shut, thus the failure. The EGR is probably bad and you had better check to see if YOU are going to pay to get it fixed! If you are going to pay, put the SEGR back on and forget it. (This is why the SEGR was built in the first place, just for this reason). Let us know what happens. |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Tim, Thanks! Big relief.... What are the FCV and EGR "open circuit" codes? The only issue would be if they replace the EGR and the P0401 does NOT go away. That's when I would PAY.... Does EGR replacement give easy access to checking turbo shaft play? Thanks again, DOC |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Is the P0299 probably due to the EGR sticking closed? Thank, DOC |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
I believe they replaced the FCV. Can anyone confirm if 5142799AA is that part number? In any case, SEGR was correctly bipassed. Everything seems to have worked out. Just paid the $100 deductible, which Chrysler is reimbursing because it took them 10 months to get a door speaker for us. Thanks so much to everyone for all your help as always. DOC |
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| Author: | msilbernagel [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Yes, the the FCV - which is inline with the CAC (intercooler) and the intake. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/m/mgQyhcnOifpEZyckvNASjww/140.jpg&imgrefurl=http://stores.ebay.com/My-Dodge-Parts/Jeep-Liberty-/_i.html?_fsub%3D2888284017&h=93&w=140&sz=4&tbnid=m-7-INN-76pYGM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=112&zoom=1&usg=__b5Iy-Dup7wtlKdTBjYKE-3ouEZA=&docid=nNf88pHmB3P3sM&sa=X&ei=raR3UPTMBrT8iQLarYD4Cw&ved=0CDIQ9QEwBA&dur=1809 Mark |
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| Author: | laplaya [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Redundant answer but keep in mind the parts manual from the newbs guide area. http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/ ... _FICHE.pdf Glad it all worked out for you |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Keith indicated that the P0299 was due to the "intake throttle closing too much". Was he referring to the FCV? (He did not feel that the "intake throttle" necessarily needed to be replaced.) Interestingly, the shutdown behavior had changed about a year ago. The Jeep had always shaken quite noticeably after turning off the key, right from when we got it with 17K miles. It changed to be much smoother, most of the time. Now it is back to "normal". I always thought the FCV was, in part, there to "smooth" shutdown, but I'm not sure. Any thoughts? DOC |
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| Author: | ChooChooman74 [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
Could it be a "safety device" to cut the air off in case the engine starts to "run away" on it's own oil? Truck pulls are required to have both fuel and air shutoffs. Just my
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| Author: | geordi [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
The suggestion that the FCV could be used to "smooth" the shutdown or somehow detect and prevent a runaway condition is false. The FCV is normally mostly closed at idle, because of the excessive amount of EGR usage that the computer is demanding. The EGR programming can be as high as 90% usage (so basically the only time the thing ISN'T flowing crap into your engine is at WOT or so) and the lighter the load on the engine, the further the FCV is allowed to close to flow even more filth into your engine. I suppose that closing the intake off 75-90% from the fresh air flow could somehow reduce the idle to a "smoother" level when you shut it down, but think about what the computer has access to for sensors and programming: It doesn't know when you will turn off the key until after you do it. My CRD always stopped rotating within 1/4 second of key-off, and it never "shuddered" or rocked when I did. Check your engine mounts maybe? The computer only knows how much air is passing the MAF (unless you have done the ORM and unplugged it, then it ONLY has a failsafe static number to use for fueling calculations... It also knows how much fuel is being injected, and how many RPMs the cams are turning. I suppose it is *possible* that the programmers could have put in a watchdog routine that would check the RPM against the fueling map to detect a runaway... But I don't think they have. If that existed, anyone trying to use propane fogging or CNG would potentially be tripping this system - The engine would be exceeding the possible RPM based solely on the diesel fuel injected, meaning it had another fuel source. Since we haven't heard of anyone having random shutdowns (or even a single case of an actual oil-fed runaway that I've ever heard about) and there HAVE been people messing with propane without the engine stopping randomly on them... I am forced to conclude that there is no anti-runaway design in the FCV. It is solely existing for forcing even more EGR flow upon the unsuspecting user. SEGR and GDE - your engine will thank you for it. |
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| Author: | kdlewis1975 [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
This has been discussed in the past. The FCV also functions to aid smoother shutdowns. Mine croaked two years ago and it was night and day difference in the shutdowns when I replaced the bad one with a new one. There have been past comments from our corporate participants and our tune creator that corroborates this information. It is true that your engine will thank you for and SEGR and GDE tune. However, both your engine and turbo will thank you for a functioning EGR valve and GDE tune. Again information from the tune creator states that the tune only opens the EGR to bleed off excess boost as a means to alleviate excess pressure off the turbo bearings which is supposed to promote longevity. Air only exits through the exhaust and no exhaust enters the intake. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | Goglio704 [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
X2. A properly functioning FCV does close at shutdown and does reduce the Cummins style shudder to a stop. I probably wouldn't spend the money to buy a replacement, but I will use the one I have until it fails. They wear out pretty fast when they are assisting the EGR. It was one of the few items I had replaced under warranty. I will be curious to see how long it lives now that it only closes at shutdown. |
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| Author: | CATCRD [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
x3. Night and day difference in shutdown smoothness when it locks up. Any runaway protection would be incidental, not by design. |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: URGENT SEGR Help Needed |
With GDE tunes, there is no benefit from SEGR. There is actually a loss of turbo overspeed protection, Keith clarified that NO exhaust gasses ever go into the intake with any GDE ECU tune. (My SEGR is disabled, but still installed.) DOC |
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