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| Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72333 |
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| Author: | xhizzous [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
Just a question as I need to do this asap and have no access to the tools that I would like to have. I'm somewhat scared of doing this by myself as I have never taken one of these apart before, but I have changed timing belts on other vehicles. Is it possible to do the change without using the gear locking tools/pins if I marked all positions of all gears (both cam sprockets, crank, fuel pump) in the exact position that I shut the vehicle down in and then re assembled it with everything in the exact position? Just looking for advice from someone that has done this and their opinion on doing this. |
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| Author: | skates04 [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
I believe there maybe a write up on this in the tech section. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
Yes and no. Yes it can be done without the Miller tools but no it probably cannot be done IMHO safely, for your engine, without substitutes so: 1. based on your location in Akron, OH there may be a forum member close by with tools. If not 2. http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html has a pretty good post on how to with DIY pins and a TDI tool; I've posted pin dimensions over on the TECH section (don't try to substitute allen wrenches or drill bits for cam pins - bad outcomes have occured). Note that a 6mm long shaft allen wrench can be used for flywheel pin (see 05 FSM for how to). Note also that there are various DIY fabricated ways to hold the cams in one place relative to each other while the cam nuts are removed BUT don't rely on the cam pins to do the holding as those pins are not strong enough. 3. make life easier on yourself and swap the front 1/2 for the water pump rather than pulling the whole thing. Back 1/2 has no moving parts and pulling the whole thing is difficult (access issues). See Sir Sam's NOOB guide for timing belt post re. the WP swap. Note Sam pulls the radiator, etc for ease of access but doing so is not necessary nor is it necessary to empty the AC system as the FSM says. 4. whatever you do witness mark everything you can think of and IMHO it's a good idea to count TB teeth between various locations for the old and new belt to make sure the count remains the same. |
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| Author: | timsvulcan [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
I did the timing belt and water pump at 100,000 without any special tools and did it safely. I bought some rigid metal strapping material was about 2 inches wide with holes drilled every inch. I cut the strapping into two pieces and then got bolts and washers to basically make an X across the two cam gears on the front of the engine. So they were bolted from the upper left side of one to the lower right side of the other and the other strap went from the upper right side of a cam gear to the lower side of the other cam gear. When the bolts were tightened up it looked like a big X. So movement could not occur either with tightening or loosening. For the pins in the camshafts I removed the bolts and put drill bits that fit snuggly into the camshafts. Secured the drill bits with duct tape so they would not fall out. I marked the location of everything and took several pictures along the way with my phone. When I was done I turned the engine over several times with a socket and breaker bar to make sure no interference. Fired it up and it is still running strong 40,000 miles later. Just be meticulous and take your time. |
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| Author: | xhizzous [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
Thank you for the feedback! I'm at 108k and would like to do this asap. I'm not a fan of running on borrowed time and it would be especially bad to have a slip or failure out on the road buried in snow this winter. |
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| Author: | MRausch82 [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
xhizzous wrote: Thank you for the feedback! I'm at 108k and would like to do this asap. I'm not a fan of running on borrowed time and it would be especially bad to have a slip or failure out on the road buried in snow this winter. I am in PA, and have the cam gear holder tool (the expensive one), but not the pins (yet). I could rent you, or lend to you, the cam holder tool if you feel like coming to PA... |
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| Author: | dkenny [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
can it be done..yes..recommend..no.. why..I had to change the CP3 on my wife at 56K miles...but that's another story.. I change the TB without any special tools..NONE!! its still running at the moment with 87K miles..so it can be done. why NO.. it would have been much easier with the right tools...it took me 2+hours just to get the new TB on.. then to make its was on right..and repeat since it wasn't.. get the tools..GDE rents them.. I know I won't do it again without the right tools. -dkenny |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
I did my t belt without any special tools but I did not change the water pump. If I had the special tools i would have changed it too. I lined up the timing marks, pinned the crank, marked the cam sprockets, and locked the sprockets together with a small pair of vice grips. Nothing moved when I removed the belt. Installed new belt, set the tensioner, and cranked several times by hand. All the marks lined up just like they should. Been running great ever since. Hopefully I will not regret not doing the water pump any time soon but I do have a new one ready to install when necessary. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
Your lucky! Using the cam pins are the most important part, next to the crank position. Each timing belt is slightly different therefore the need to loosen the cam pullys, set the tensioner and then lock down the pullys. Without doing this you take the chance that your timing may be advanced or behind, even in the smallest amount. You may never know. Or be able to tell if your fuel miles or power may be suffering or not. I would not be conserned with the water pump. It will start to leak way prior to having any big issues, giving you time to replace it. |
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| Author: | Goglio704 [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
I wouldn't want to tackle the job without the special tools. GDE rents them, and there are plenty of folks on here willing to rent, loan, or help. I have no doubt the improvised tools can work, but the correct ones are worth it for the time savings alone. As for the water pump, mine seemed very healthy with 109k on the clock, but I value my time too much to take a chance. Working at my own pace, and doing some "while I'm in here" stuff, I spent three days on my timing belt project. I hope to do it again at 200k, but have no desire to to be back in there any sooner. I think most of these water pumps would likely make it over 150k without problems, but all the way to 200k? Time will tell I guess... |
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| Author: | flman [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
Easy way to do it, is paint marks on the sprockets and old belt, then transfer the marks to the new belt, if all the marks line up it is fail proof, just do not rotate any thing 360 degrees while you have the belt off. I did mine that way with out a hitch, and I did not have to find TDC, etc. |
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| Author: | Goglio704 [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
^^^I'm assuming you didn't take the cam sprockets loose? If you leave the cam sprockets alone, I can see where that would work. If not replacing the water pump, this is probably the easiest way out. No renting, borrowing, or making tools. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
WOW... several lucky people. You should play
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
Goglio704 wrote: ^^^I'm assuming you didn't take the cam sprockets loose? If you leave the cam sprockets alone, I can see where that would work. If not replacing the water pump, this is probably the easiest way out. No renting, borrowing, or making tools. Thats correct. If you do not replace the water pump, you do not have to remove the cam sprockets. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
You don't have to remove them. But you should loosen them as the manual states. Therefore applying the correct tension throuout the belt with the cams pinned. |
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| Author: | flman [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
Goglio704 wrote: ^^^I'm assuming you didn't take the cam sprockets loose? If you leave the cam sprockets alone, I can see where that would work. If not replacing the water pump, this is probably the easiest way out. No renting, borrowing, or making tools. No did not loosen them. |
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| Author: | kjjet [ Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Has Anyone replaced the TB/Pump without special tools? |
The tools are used to assure things are done correctly. Why not use them? |
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