Thoughts/Advice on Parts

Hexus · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:15 pm

Alright, I already know I slipped the timing belt and I have to replace the Rockers/Lifters, and I decided since I'm going to open it up, I'm going to go ahead and replace all 16 of them.

I also am doing the timing belt while I'm in there.

Here is what I have so far:

16 Rockers/Lifters Complete
Water Pump
Water Pump O Rings
Timing Belt
Timing Belt Pulley x 2
Timing Belt Tensioner
Nice Crow Foot Socket Set (Metric and SAE)
VM 1052, VM 1053 Tools
I have a line on the VM1085 I'll be able to use from a dealer.
Nice new Torque Wrench (Couldn't find my old one, have moved 4 times in 8 years for work)

I know I'm going to need a head gasket, but apparently I have to wait until I get it off to see how many holes it has to know what size I need, is that correct?

I know there are some people here who have done this (Sir Sam, Geordi, etc.), what parts am I not thinking about before I get it apart? (My mind says copper crush washers for some reason)

I probably want to replace the serpentine belt too while I'm dicking around in there, and I'm considering the fan clutch, but I'm already about $1000 in with tools so I may wait since I don't have to pull the engine apart to do that.

Thoughts?

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:45 pm

You will need the cam pulley holding tool when you wrench off and on the retainer bolt to the pulley. Otherwise you risk bending the cam pins that times the cams.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:56 pm

What he said. The pins are NOT for holding, they are only for alignment. Crush washers are a good idea, you will need them for the injectors, and any injector shop should have them for cheap. Why are you changing the head gasket? Did yours leak? Once you get the valve cover off, you can inspect the valves without removing the head. I wouldn't break those head bolts without a really good reason.

Hexus · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:50 pm

I thought the head had to come off to do the Rockers/Lifters, if not, then my mistake, it won't come off.

I already previously stated that I have a VM 1085 (Cam gear holder) coming from a dealer when I get ready for it, I know not to try doing it with just the pins.

Head entirely doesn't have to come off for Rockers/Lifters? I've never done them, just assumed (made one outta myself, etc. etc.)...

Hexus · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:02 am

Should I be concerned with replacing the Valve cover gasket please?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:28 pm

Depends on how polite the valve cover gasket is about coming off intact. Mine was very polite, and in good shape.

The valve cover gasket isn't designed to hold pressure, just to keep the oil spray inside and on the top of the head. All you need to remove to do the rockers, is the timing belt - including the inner cover - the cam pulleys... Then move to the top and pull the fuel rail, injectors, and wiring harness.

The injectors aren't held in place by ANYTHING other than the crow's foot clamp, what I did was to leave the hard line attached to the injector body, and use it to GENTLY wiggle and rotate the injector in the bore. It will pop out eventually. There is an o-ring in a recess of the injector's body, this is a debris catcher and spacer, nothing more. I used replacements from Home Depot, but I never did get to check them for durability. The originals, 3 didn't exist and the 4th was ripped and shredded by age.

Be VERY careful of the fuel return lines - DO NOT DISCONNECT THE RUBBER HOSES FROM THE PLASTIC FITTINGS!!!!! It won't work, you WILL break one of those tiny plastic things. Just pull the hose from the sensor at the end of the fuel rail (I pushed it off of the sensor with needlenose pliers) and GENTLY unsnap the plastic nipples from the injectors. They pull straight up. I used a dental pick (flat spoon shape) to try and lift / unsnap them after the clips are removed... And I still managed to have one break in half. SUCH a dumb fragile design.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:16 pm

geordi wrote:

The injectors aren't held in place by ANYTHING other than the crow's foot clamp, what I did was to leave the hard line attached to the injector body, and use it to GENTLY wiggle and rotate the injector in the bore. It will pop out eventually.

My injectors had the rings intact, and they had accumulated about an inch of oily schmutz around the barrel which clamped the injectors tightly, so I actually used the puller frommthe Miller set.

geordi wrote:

Be VERY careful of the fuel return lines - DO NOT DISCONNECT THE RUBBER HOSES FROM THE PLASTIC FITTINGS!!!!! It won't work, you WILL break one of those tiny plastic things. Just pull the hose from the sensor at the end of the fuel rail (I pushed it off of the sensor with needlenose pliers) and GENTLY unsnap the plastic nipples from the injectors. They pull straight up. I used a dental pick (flat spoon shape) to try and lift / unsnap them after the clips are removed... And I still managed to have one break in half. SUCH a dumb fragile design.

You brute! So that is what happened!

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:50 pm

Alright, so apparently I have all the parts I'll need, now just have to have some patience and some wrench time.

Thanks all, will update when working on it and may even donate some pictures. My old rockers/lifters will probably be going to GDE.

-Hexus-

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:23 am

LMWatBullRun wrote:

geordi wrote:

Be VERY careful of the fuel return lines - DO NOT DISCONNECT THE RUBBER HOSES FROM THE PLASTIC FITTINGS!!!!! It won't work, you WILL break one of those tiny plastic things. Just pull the hose from the sensor at the end of the fuel rail (I pushed it off of the sensor with needlenose pliers) and GENTLY unsnap the plastic nipples from the injectors. They pull straight up. I used a dental pick (flat spoon shape) to try and lift / unsnap them after the clips are removed... And I still managed to have one break in half. SUCH a dumb fragile design.

You brute! So that is what happened!

Mongo not like plastic parts.

At the same time... I DID replace the plastic T that snapped, the return line should have been fully intact. There is a reason that I had all those extra parts, sometimes I needed them, sometimes (like with those fuel return fittings) someone else needed them and I could oblige.

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:02 am

Sounds to me like you are on the right track. Although I don't understand why you would need the two Crow's foot sets. Everything else is pretty straight forward to unbolt. A 13mm socket with a universal on it will help with the rear nuts on the water pump-to-block mount. Yes, the serpentine belt is going to be off, might as well replace it too. Same with the serpentine tensioner.

Admittedly, I have not pulled the intake/cam housing/top off of mine. If you need that gasket, you may be in for a wait.

Hope things go well.

bigfatsi · **Joined:** Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:48 am **Posts:** 8

Just done this exact job after belt snapped.

Didn't use any timing tools, just a couple of drill bits, a tyre iron (for cam nuts) and a bit of dicking about getting the teeth in place. Definitely do-able without spending fortune on tools.

However, be prepared for injectors to be stuck. Mine took over 4 tonne to remove (hydraulically). Tool can be hired.

Don't take head off unless you have to. When cam cover is off, look carefully along the tops of the valves. If they're all the same height and angle, they'll be fine.

I didn't replace cam cover gasket either (couldn't get one in time, but it makes sense to do it if you've got one.

HTH

S

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:21 pm

I have done timing belts on a number of different vehicles, and in many cases I avoided buying the special tools. I've made a number of them, as I'm very frugal and I don't spend a nickel I don't have to.

In this case, I bought the cam gear holding tool and was glad I spent the bucks to do so. It may be possible to do this job *correctly* without it, but I would not try unless I had exhausted all other options. YMMV, but this engine is too expensive to risk using 'field expedients'.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:24 pm

Hexus wrote:

I thought the head had to come off to do the Rockers/Lifters, if not, then my mistake, it won't come off.

I already previously stated that I have a VM 1085 (Cam gear holder) coming from a dealer when I get ready for it, I know not to try doing it with just the pins.

Head entirely doesn't have to come off for Rockers/Lifters? I've never done them, just assumed (made one outta myself, etc. etc.)...

Nope. Head stays on for the rocker replacement. I would, if I were you, while I was in there, consider lapping/retorquing your head bolts, and/or replacement with racing studs. I'd also put a machinist's straight edge on the head to be sure it isn't warped.

LMW

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:26 pm

Hoosier CRD wrote:

<snip> A 13mm socket with a universal on it will help with the rear nuts on the water pump-to-block mount. <snip>

Sam suggests, and I agree, that there is no need to replace the back half of the WP. Why go to the trouble? Leave that bad boy alone and save the time.

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:00 pm

I got the crow's foot socket set (which had metric/sae both in it, didn't buy 2) because I saw Sir Sam using them in his walkthrough for the fuel rail instead of the Miller Tool and plan to do the same.

Yeah, as I said, I'm borrowing a VM.1085 from a dealership, I'm not skimping.

Straight edge noted, thanks!

I just hope there's nothing wrong with the pistons, and yeah I only planned on doing front 1/2 of the water pump.

I went ahead and bought a Serpentine belt since they had a Gates for $32.98 on Amazon with free shipping.

I've seen mixed opinions on the Thermostat, I had no issues before so I'm not entirely concerned about it.

Just waiting on all my parts from Europe.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:41 pm

There is no harm in replacing an OEM tstat during the timing belt job but it's certainly not required as it's perfectly easy to replace separately. That of course assumes your temp gauge rides in the normal slightly left of center spot and not lower; if lower replace tstat.

While in there I'd invest a few extra bucks in the Hayden heavy duty fan clutch to replace the dicey OEM fan clutch; you can keep the metal fan or replace it with the nylon one.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:12 pm

Agree with PapaIndigo on the fan clutch.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:49 pm

x3 on the fan clutch. Unless YOU replaced it, you can be 100% certain that it is failed and bad. It also isn't that expensive, where the failed clutch WILL cause expensive failures if / when you actually needed it to be ready for service. FYI: It is exactly the same part as used on the v8 1997-era Grand Cherokee, as well as (I'm reasonably certain) most of the other Jeep options since then.

Very common part, so cheaper than most parts on this vehicle.

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:18 pm

I saw the Fan Clutch for about $50 on Amazon earlier. Anyone have a part # on the Nylon Fan in case I decide to do both?

Thanks!

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:25 pm

Fan - http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69145

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