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IT LIVES! (mostly) was: "I think I blew my turbo"
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Author:  R2.0 [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  IT LIVES! (mostly) was: "I think I blew my turbo"
It's alive...IT'S ALIVE...IT'S ALIVE!
(update Page 3)

I was driving home tonight late and suddenly lost power, but that was it - so I thought. I figured I blew a CAC hose off of a fitting, since I recently replaced them and was having a rough time fitting one of them back on. I was about six miles from home and figured on nursing it a bit. I did notice it was a LOT slower than before when I was having boost issues, but I didn't realize the extent of my problems until I was almost home. The road I was on is unlit and it was late so no one was behind me, but when I got into town and under street lamps I saw the billows of black smoke coming out the back. We're talking refinery fire here. And about a block from the house my oil light came on, but I idled/coasted it into the driveway. As I shut it off I heard a metallic rattle come and go from the engine compartment. So I shut her down and logged on here.

It is a 2006 with 88k miles on it. After reading some threads I think I blew the turbo seal on the exhaust side, with most of the oil going out the tailpipe. I think what saved me was that the engine was somewhat over-filled with oil do to an error on my part, so it had more to lose. Tomorrow I am going to pull the inlet hose and look at the impeller, but I'm pretty sure of what I will find.

Assuming it's a blown turbo, I see my options as replacing it myself or having a local diesel shop do it. How hard is the replacement procedure? From what I can see it can mostly be done topside. Alternately, what is an estimate of what a shop would hit me for in labor? I don't have a lot of leisure time to do this - it is my primary means of transportation. I can take public transit but I get back so late that I would not be able to work on it during the evenings. And the weather is turning more cold so that slows me down as well.

Also, what are the secondary things I should do? Drain the oil and change the filter obviously. Anything else?

R2.0
Author:  Hexus [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
Geordi could tell you more than I, since he's had the oil out the tailpipe. The turbo is pretty easily changed out topside, really all you have to remove is the CAC Hoses and the coolant reservoir and the air box.

Going to cost you about $1100 for a new one, or maybe someone has one from where they converted to a different one. Don't trust any remanufactured ones, no one is qualified by Garret to do them, and even Garret won't do it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-TURBOCHARGER-FOR-JEEP-LIBERTY-2-8L-TURBO-DIESEL-CRD-/120862356860?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c23f5357c&vxp=mtr

That shows as a new turbo, but it's not the same brand as OEM, so unsure..... it's only $750.

Turbo isn't hard to change at all really. Easier than EGR Valve, trust me, I've done both.
Author:  R2.0 [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
Hexus wrote:
Geordi could tell you more than I, since he's had the oil out the tailpipe. The turbo is pretty easily changed out topside, really all you have to remove is the CAC Hoses and the coolant reservoir and the air box.

Going to cost you about $1100 for a new one, or maybe someone has one from where they converted to a different one. Don't trust any remanufactured ones, no one is qualified by Garret to do them, and even Garret won't do it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-TURBOCHARGER-FOR-JEEP-LIBERTY-2-8L-TURBO-DIESEL-CRD-/120862356860?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c23f5357c&vxp=mtr

That shows as a new turbo, but it's not the same brand as OEM, so unsure..... it's only $750.

Turbo isn't hard to change at all really. Easier than EGR Valve, trust me, I've done both.


If I decide to do it myself I'll get it from IDParts - I've been ordering from them since before the C&D order :mrgreen: and I try to stick with the vendors I know. Especially when they are good. I have no issue with non-OEM parts per se, but I prefer others to be the guinea pigs.
Author:  Hoosier CRD [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
If I decide to do it myself I'll get it from IDParts - I've been ordering from them since before the C&D order :mrgreen: and I try to stick with the vendors I know. Especially when they are good. I have no issue with non-OEM parts per se, but I prefer others to be the guinea pigs.[/quote]

When it comes to turbos, there is the OE part, in this case Garrett and everything else. Other options, especially from unkknown sources, could be cheap knockoffs. Trust me, you want the OE/Garrett. ID Parts does sell the OE Garrett. Others likely do as well, such as the Ebay source mentioned. Complete P/N is: 763360-5001S.

When cheaply made knockoff turbos, from whatever country, for whatever application, are used in place of the OE, you essentially have a HAND GRENADE under your hood. Yes, I use the term accurately. i DO NOT want to hear of someone being duped due to a cheaper price, etc. so that is why I am as emphatic as I am. Name brand substitutes are a different story altogether; I see that often. Please be careful. Hope this helps.
Author:  ChooChooman74 [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
Make sure the vacuum line didn't come disconnect or that the vacuum tower (whatever it's called) is working correctly, also.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
I would check with GDE as to how to judge whether you have a bigger problem than needing a turbo. Sorry.

DOC
Author:  R2.0 [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
ChooChooman74 wrote:
Make sure the vacuum line didn't come disconnect or that the vacuum tower (whatever it's called) is working correctly, also.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


I've already experienced a disconnected vacuum line - this was MUCH worse. While the power was only slightly less the smoke production was astounding.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
I'd bring geordi, GDE and Sir Sam into the loop via email or a pm. I'm worried that you may have bottom end or other damage to the engine due to oil loss. The fact that your oil light came on bothers me as the light's sender is down by the oil filter and, while it can come on for low psi from the oil pump, in your situation I suspect it came on when the oil pump just simply ran out of oil entirely hence not oil was being supplied to engine internals not just the turbo.
Author:  R2.0 [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
Update: I went back outside and took a look. No spots on the driveway, etc. Checked the oil, didn't register. Added a half gallon, still not on the stick. Added the remainder of the gallon and it came up to the full mark. So it appears I lost a lot, but not all the oil. I'm a bit more optimistic about the bottom end.
Author:  kjjet [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
R2.0 wrote:
Update: I went back outside and took a look. No spots on the driveway, etc. Checked the oil, didn't register. Added a half gallon, still not on the stick. Added the remainder of the gallon and it came up to the full mark. So it appears I lost a lot, but not all the oil. I'm a bit more optimistic about the bottom end.


I would be most conserned with the loss of oil pressure. It only takes a few seconds to trash the bearings, due to no oil pressure.
Author:  camo [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
I have a used turbo in good condition. 450 shiped and its yours!!! PM me.
Author:  cevans [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
R2.0 wrote:
If I decide to do it myself I'll get it from IDParts - I've been ordering from them since before the C&D order :mrgreen: and I try to stick with the vendors I know. Especially when they are good. I have no issue with non-OEM parts per se, but I prefer others to be the guinea pigs.


Thanks for the kind words.

While I do not know the company and don't have their product in my hands, I suspect that turbo is NOT OE Garret - "brand new aftermarket turbocharger." It doesn't specifically mention Garrett anywhere on the listing, and, in the photo, there *should* be "Garrett" in the casting for the exhaust side. (see http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info ... ts_id=2823)

Finally, their sale price is SIGNIFICANTLY below our cost. We order turbochargers in pallet quantities directly from Garrett - so I know that if someone else is selling a "Garrett Turbo" for a price that is significantly below our cost - something isn't right...
Author:  cevans [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
kjjet wrote:
R2.0 wrote:
Update: I went back outside and took a look. No spots on the driveway, etc. Checked the oil, didn't register. Added a half gallon, still not on the stick. Added the remainder of the gallon and it came up to the full mark. So it appears I lost a lot, but not all the oil. I'm a bit more optimistic about the bottom end.


I would be most conserned with the loss of oil pressure. It only takes a few seconds to trash the bearings, due to no oil pressure.


Me too.
Author:  R2.0 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
How hard is it to do a bottom end rebuild on the vehicle? This will be in the driveway, in the cold.
Author:  jeepdan [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
R2.0 wrote:
How hard is it to do a bottom end rebuild on the vehicle? This will be in the driveway, in the cold.

This engine is a tunnel block design. You would not be able to service any of the bottom end unless the engine block was completely out of vehicle.
Author:  geordi [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
Losing a gallon of oil, oil light plus 'refinery fire' out the tail pipe, and the kicker - mechanical rattling noises... uh-oh.

You are not going to like what I have to say, but I think you need to hear it before you start really digging into your wallet for this.

I strongly suspect that your bottom end has starved for oil, long before it actually ran OUT while you were nursing it home. The problem is that the oil passages that feed the bearings are VERY small, creating a lot of restriction and backpressure against the force of the oil pump. When you 'cut a hole in the system' with the turbo failure, you effectively poked a hole in the side of a garden hose. What happens to the pressure at the end of a hose when that happens? All that pressure goes away almost instantly, heading to the path of least resistance.

Unfortunately, my own turbo failure proved this to me, as I lost the bottom end less than 10 miles later on the test drive. The bearing for the #1 rod had completely melted out and gone. I know this is what happened, because the #2 was partly gone in the same manner, and #3 showed signs of starting the process. They apparently overheated almost instantly once the oil pressure was gone / reduced, because I only kept my engine running for about 30 seconds after the same 'I think I popped a boost hose' event. I also lost a gallon of oil.

What I would suggest right now, is that you try to remove the oil pan and get a good look at the bottom end before you spend any money OR do any more damage. The cost (if a shop has to do it) will be MINOR compared to the guarantee of buying an $8000 engine replacement if you gamble and are wrong.

Sorry this happened to you, you might also want to look at Craigslist for anything cheap with wheels. That would also be cheaper than a rental car, and you are looking at several weeks to several months without your Jeep in service. Even if you find that the bearings are the only damage - you will need to wait for the parts from The VM Specialist out of the UK. Their shipping isn't the fastest, but they are good people.

I'm willing to help any way I can on the wrenching, and there might be other members in your area - Where are you located? I consider the I-95 corridor my back yard, and I've gotten the turbo replacement down to a science, about a 3 hour job. I can talk you through it, and it isn't really that difficult. Just basic wrenches are needed, no draining of the AC or radiator coolants.
Author:  R2.0 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
I probably ought to clarify the "mechanical rattle." It was NOT a bottom end noise. It sounded like something very lightweight, as I imagine an impeller hitting a housing would sound. If I was forced to put the noise in the engine I'd say top end. The noise also came and went: click click click click clickclick click click click...wait 3 seconds...click click click click clickclick click click click. Not a rythmic sound like I'd expect from a rod or main bearing.

That being said I am going to pull the pan and take a look. I may also start looking for a longblock.
Author:  geordi [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
My second engine failure (and the first one too) both had a 'clicking' sound... I thought they were on the top end too - thought it sounded most like 'lifter noise' if I had to describe it.

It wasn't. Both engine failures were the same thing: rod cap / rod bearing failure. The only thing I can say about the 'click' is that it was a sound short being transmitted back through the rod and cylinder, to where it sounded like the top end.

Chances are, your turbo completely seized, and that wasn't the source of any noise. If it wasn't, it would be a 'jingling' type noise, and easily identifiable as being on the passenger side. Anything that sounds 'centered' in the engine bay, is most likely from the block itself.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
Once again, this points up the foolishness of having the failure of the turbo, which WILL happen due to high soot load, result inevitably in the failure of the lower end. There has to be a better way to feed lube oil to the turbo that does not result in catastrophic loss of engine lube when the turbo fails. How much oil at what pressure does it need? Has anyone measured the return oil flow?
Author:  R2.0 [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I think I blew my turbo - how screwed am I?
geordi wrote:
My second engine failure (and the first one too) both had a 'clicking' sound... I thought they were on the top end too - thought it sounded most like 'lifter noise' if I had to describe it.

It wasn't. Both engine failures were the same thing: rod cap / rod bearing failure. The only thing I can say about the 'click' is that it was a sound short being transmitted back through the rod and cylinder, to where it sounded like the top end.

Chances are, your turbo completely seized, and that wasn't the source of any noise. If it wasn't, it would be a 'jingling' type noise, and easily identifiable as being on the passenger side. Anything that sounds 'centered' in the engine bay, is most likely from the block itself.


I didn't say they came from the top end, only that is what I would pick if forced to choose. But it came from the area of the turbo, and out wasn't so much a "jingling" as the sound of a little kid banging on a pot lids with a wooden spoon. I had my head under the hood, so I could localize it pretty well.

While a bottom end rebuild might be impossible with the engine installed, can the tips^k^k^k^k rod bearings be pulled at least?

Edited to correct stupid phone keyboard errors.
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