Won't turn over with jump, how much to pay for this CRD?

Fastjohnny · **Joined:** Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:31 pm **Posts:** 6

First post, think I want a CRD, have read a bunch on Lost including the noob, have decent wrenching skills, own other diesels including the quirky 6.5 in a suburban. I found a 2005 under 80000 miles, at an auction, listing indicates it won't turn over, no other technical information given. Do I run from it? I don't mind a project if the price is right. Convince me!

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:50 am

Fastjohnny wrote:

Do I run from it?

If the engine is toast, then a used good engine is approx.. 4000 to 5000 plus install.

If the engine isn't toast then anywhere from 600 to ? in parts only

If the transmission needs a TC then 300 - 700 for a TC plus install

Add another 600 for minor things that may pop up.

If the exterior is in good shape with a good set of tires and a clean interior then the CRD is probably worth anywhere between 1200 to 2200 as is

My :2cents:

based on what I have seen here so far

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:14 am

While I haven't personally been to a vehicle auction, my knowledge of them is that you have very limited inspection abilities at them.

If you can't open the hood and look for holes in the side of the engine... Don't buy it. Anything that prevents these from turning over is either trashed lifters (internal only and won't be seen without teardown) or trashed pistons - might be seen externally.

Tread cautiously.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:20 am

I think he means it will crank, but not fire. In any case, $8K is way too much to pay for anything that cannot be thoroughly be checked out and appear to need nothing. (Operative word there is "appear".)

DOC

Fastjohnny · **Joined:** Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:31 pm **Posts:** 6

DOC4444 wrote:

I think he means it will crank, but not fire. In any case, $8K is way too much to pay for anything that cannot be thoroughly be checked out and appear to need nothing. (Operative word there is "appear".)

DOC

I don't know whether it will turn over or not. The description said it won't crank with jump.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:29 pm

If the engine is seized, Geordi is on the money.

DOC

naturist · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:25 pm

If the description says it won't crank, I think I'd view it as the engine is junk, and will have to be replaced in toto. "Won't crank" means to me that it won't turn over at all, not that it won't fire.

If the body and interior are pristine, it' might be worth putting a new engine in it, if priced accordingly. If I remember correctly that a 2005 is blue-booked at around $7800, I might go $2500-$3000 for it.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:39 pm

Several possibilities to consider based on only "it won't crank with jump":
1. engine cannot physically turn over = hydrolock, shot bottom end, rod/piston thru side of engine, etc. All various degrees of really bad and depending on what it is means a new engine is needed. Only way(s) I can think of to test this would require pulling fan and fan shroud and seeing if engine can be manually turned over clockwise only with a 21mm socket on the front of the crankshaft. If it turns over it's not hydrolock or a rod/pistion thru side of the engine but bottom end could still be a problem.
2. engine will turn over with jump but not start. See note above about manually turning the engine. Not starting could be 1) insufficient voltage from jump to "tell" ECU to give the starter system "permission" to work; 2) bad starter switch; 3) bad shaft from key module to starter switch; 4) engine kill relay pulled; 5) etc.

I could go on but the bottom line ranges from really simple (ex. just needs a decent battery) to really expensive/not simple (ex. needs new engine).

If you really want to gamble absent any more information I'd be reluctant to offer more than $500 or so depending on your level of rebuild skill and tool access. I'm not sure I'd go as high as naturist though

PS - I hope you ment 80,000 miles not 800,000 miles

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:00 pm

Fastjohnny wrote:

DOC4444 wrote:

I think he means it will crank, but not fire. In any case, $8K is way too much to pay for anything that cannot be thoroughly be checked out and appear to need nothing. (Operative word there is "appear".)

DOC

I don't know whether it will turn over or not. The description said it won't crank with jump.

If it won't CRANK - that means the starter can't rotate it, which indicates mechanical jamming - not good.
If it turns over but won't fire, that could also be wrecked valves (especially if the cranking sounds VERY fast and 'loose' like there isn't any compression)... At 80k miles, as well as the age of the belt itself, a dried and cracked belt could easily fail, trashing the rockers. A clueless dealer (the vast majority) would not know how to fix it, and could easily talk a clueless owner into dumping the vehicle and they would just auction it off instantly.

The ultimate answer is... You need to be able to inspect it, and I don't know that they will give you that opportunity. Without it, it will be a complete crapshoot. It could be as simple as $400 for new rockers and $75 for a new belt... Or $8000 for a completely new engine.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:12 pm

It could even be simpler and cheaper; air leaks in fuel head and lines. Fix with new fuel head and/or lift pump.

My guess is that you can find out at the auction what actually happens when the ignition key is turned, but not much more.

DOC

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

the debate is an exercise in futility....it being a CRuD and it being an auction means the vehice will sell for crazy stupid money.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:39 pm

Drewd wrote:

the debate is an exercise in futility....it being a CRuD and it being an auction means the vehice will sell for crazy stupid money.

This is probably true - anyone other than a dealer that is bidding will go far over what they should for such an unknown. The dealers should all stop quite low, but unless it actually turns over without firing... I wouldn't go near it.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

A couple of customers where I work are used car dealers/brokers. They stay clear away from anything diesel because their sale's price leaves little meat on the bone for them to profit off of the vehicle.

Fastjohnny · **Joined:** Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:31 pm **Posts:** 6

Don't think I'll gamble without better knowledge.
The exterior body damage is cosmetic IMO, but the unknowns about the drivetrain, and limited capacity to further examine tells me it's time to bow out on this one.
Here is the auction description:

2005 Jeep Liberty Limited, 78k, 2.8L Diesel Engine, has a few spots that have been touched up with mismatched paint, passenger door is damaged, hole in the front bumper, leather is showing wear, would not turn over with jump start. Non-running. Titled Vehicle

Rich · **Posted:** Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:51 pm

papaindigo wrote:

...

PS - I hope you ment 80,000 miles not 800,000 miles

I was hoping it was 800,000... gives me hope!

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:44 am

Our odometers stop at something like 555000 thousand miles, so no, it wasn't 800,000.

I once made a ebay ad for a CNG crown victoria, accidentally typed 600000 instead of 60000, despite having photo of the odometer showing 60k I got countless emails from people asking if I meant 60k. smartasses.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:16 pm

Call your local scrap yard and ask what the scrap value is. Round here it would fetch about $500 which is how high I'd be prepared to go at auction. There are far better project vehicles out there.

Fastjohnny · **Joined:** Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:31 pm **Posts:** 6

Well it's already up to 2175 and it won't get over until 8 PM tonight!

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

Crazy price already.....if engine is shot, someone just bought an expensive paperweight unless they have a good engine lying around.

R2.0 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:33 pm

geordi wrote:

Fastjohnny wrote:

DOC4444 wrote:

I think he means it will crank, but not fire. In any case, $8K is way too much to pay for anything that cannot be thoroughly be checked out and appear to need nothing. (Operative word there is "appear".)

DOC

I don't know whether it will turn over or not. The description said it won't crank with jump.

If it won't CRANK - that means the starter can't rotate it, which indicates mechanical jamming - not good.
If it turns over but won't fire, that could also be wrecked valves (especially if the cranking sounds VERY fast and 'loose' like there isn't any compression)... At 80k miles, as well as the age of the belt itself, a dried and cracked belt could easily fail, trashing the rockers. A clueless dealer (the vast majority) would not know how to fix it, and could easily talk a clueless owner into dumping the vehicle and they would just auction it off instantly.

The ultimate answer is... You need to be able to inspect it, and I don't know that they will give you that opportunity. Without it, it will be a complete crapshoot. It could be as simple as $400 for new rockers and $75 for a new belt... Or $8000 for a completely new engine.

It might not be anything near that bad - burnt up starter, bad chassis grounds, even a bad ignition switch. But without physically examining it that's not the way to bet.

I am looking at auction vehicles as a possible source for engine replacement on mine. But if it won't run and isn't available for inspection I'm not even bookmarking the page.

Won't turn over with jump, how much to pay for this CRD?

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