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EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
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Author:  rossignol292 [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
So I've been dealing with this problem for awhile now. The EGR pipe extends from the exhaust manifold, around the back of the engine, and into the EGR valve. The pipe has a flange on the end that sits right on the EGR valve, and is bolted to the EGR valve by a piece of steel. In my situation, the flange cracked and broke away from the rest of the EGR pipe. I have the Eco tune, so my EGR is shut off. However, this problem allows exhaust to leak into my engine bay (which is loud and costs me some boost pressure).

I've tried a number of products to seal up the leak, but none have seemed to work. Thermo steel and other exhaust repair putties/epoxies fall off within days. The best I've found so far is copper RTV with has lasted as long as 2 months. I'm convinced it's because RTV is flexible enough to deal with the vibration (lots of vibration down there). But even the high heat RTV ultimately failed because it's not meant for these applications (sealing a gap as opposed to creating a gasket). So now I'd like to try other sealing products that are designed to seal gaps and remain flexible. My only question is, how hot do you think this area gets? It's right on the engine block, and the EGR valve even has coolant running through it. However, the EGR pipe is connected to the exhaust manifold (albeit a short distance away). Once it's sealed, there shouldn't be much exhaust gas circulating through it because, as i mentioned, i have the eco tune cutting off the EGR.

In short, I need to figure out the temperature of this area to I can find a sealant that is flexible, and able to handle the heat.

Thanks everyone.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
rossignol292 wrote:
So I've been dealing with this problem for awhile now. The EGR pipe extends from the exhaust manifold, around the back of the engine, and into the EGR valve. The pipe has a flange on the end that sits right on the EGR valve, and is bolted to the EGR valve by a piece of steel. In my situation, the flange cracked and broke away from the rest of the EGR pipe. I have the Eco tune, so my EGR is shut off. However, this problem allows exhaust to leak into my engine bay (which is loud and costs me some boost pressure).

I've tried a number of products to seal up the leak, but none have seemed to work. Thermo steel and other exhaust repair putties/epoxies fall off within days. The best I've found so far is copper RTV with has lasted as long as 2 months. I'm convinced it's because RTV is flexible enough to deal with the vibration (lots of vibration down there). But even the high heat RTV ultimately failed because it's not meant for these applications (sealing a gap as opposed to creating a gasket). So now I'd like to try other sealing products that are designed to seal gaps and remain flexible. My only question is, how hot do you think this area gets? It's right on the engine block, and the EGR valve even has coolant running through it. However, the EGR pipe is connected to the exhaust manifold (albeit a short distance away). Once it's sealed, there shouldn't be much exhaust gas circulating through it because, as i mentioned, i have the eco tune cutting off the EGR.

In short, I need to figure out the temperature of this area to I can find a sealant that is flexible, and able to handle the heat.

Thanks everyone.


suggestion- buy a used replacement. Or learn to braze.
Author:  Glend [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Just because you are running the GDE Eco tune doesn't mean the EGR valve is not still used. GDE use the valve to bleed off turbo surge so it continues to open on quick throttle lift off, which bleed bost off into the exhaust manifold. So this will also go into the engine bay. You could simply block off the exhaust manifold end of that rear pipe - using a stainless steel shim inserted into the mouth of the pipe - this will prevent exhaust pressure loss which robs you of boost.
Author:  rossignol292 [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
That's true. It's my understanding that with the tune the EGR is only opened for a fraction of a second after letting off hard pushes. This allows the pressurized air to escape rather than press against (and possibly damage) the butterfly. However, my plan is to leave the EGR pipe functional (not block it off) so that this air goes back to the exhaust manifold.

I know others have blocked the EGR pipe at the manifold, but I've never seen a write-up. Do you know how difficult it would be, or what would need to be removed to access that side?
Author:  user113 [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Wouldn't it be worth looking into just replacing the pipe and fixing it (mostly) permanently? Exhaust fumes in the engine bay would have me very concerned for my health.
Author:  rossignol292 [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
If this fails I will look into getting it replaced. But I really don't want to pay ~$80 for a new EGR pipe plus labor for installing it (behind the engine is bound to get a little tricky). Especially since my EGR is 99% inactive.

As far as exhaust fumes, it really doesn't put out all that much. I also keep my air recirculating in the cabin to avoid sucking any of it in. Although, the driver's side of my engine bay has a nice coat of soot.
Author:  Hexus [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
You MIGHT be able to take it to a reputable muffler shop, and they MIGHT be able to weld it up for you, that would hold.
Author:  rossignol292 [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Ya a good weld on it would be perfect. It's fairly difficult to get to though, especially with a welder.

What does everyone think as far as temperature of that area? My guess is that it never gets above 300f, but I'm really not sure (hence the post).
Author:  kjjet [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
rossignol292 wrote:
So I've been dealing with this problem for awhile now. The EGR pipe extends from the exhaust manifold, around the back of the engine, and into the EGR valve. The pipe has a flange on the end that sits right on the EGR valve, and is bolted to the EGR valve by a piece of steel. In my situation, the flange cracked and broke away from the rest of the EGR pipe. I have the Eco tune, so my EGR is shut off. However, this problem allows exhaust to leak into my engine bay (which is loud and costs me some boost pressure).

I've tried a number of products to seal up the leak, but none have seemed to work. Thermo steel and other exhaust repair putties/epoxies fall off within days. The best I've found so far is copper RTV with has lasted as long as 2 months. I'm convinced it's because RTV is flexible enough to deal with the vibration (lots of vibration down there). But even the high heat RTV ultimately failed because it's not meant for these applications (sealing a gap as opposed to creating a gasket). So now I'd like to try other sealing products that are designed to seal gaps and remain flexible. My only question is, how hot do you think this area gets? It's right on the engine block, and the EGR valve even has coolant running through it. However, the EGR pipe is connected to the exhaust manifold (albeit a short distance away). Once it's sealed, there shouldn't be much exhaust gas circulating through it because, as i mentioned, i have the eco tune cutting off the EGR.

In short, I need to figure out the temperature of this area to I can find a sealant that is flexible, and able to handle the heat.

Thanks everyone.


I had this problem..

The best way it fix it is to remove the EGR for good. (this is what i did)

1. Remove the pipe from the exhaust (clamp) and EGR valve (two bolts)
2. Take the pipe to a welder, have him cut the pipe to 1 inch
long at the exhaust side and weld it shut.
3. Install the 1 inch long pipe with the original clamp.
You could be done at this point if you place a cover on the EGR with the two bolts. But i would continue.
4. Completly remove the EGR, cooler and intake elbow with the butterfly valve.
5. Install a heater hose from the line that went to the EGR, now directly to the Head.
6. Remove the butterfly valve from the elbow and remove the flange from the valve. (the flange is where the intake hose clamps to)
7. With 4 new smaller bolts and sealant bolt the flange directly to the elbow. (eliminating the valve)
8. On the lower side of elbow you will need to reinstall the clamp with a small blocking plate. (I made a small disk from sheet alum. You may want to file down the elbow a little for fitting)
9. Install the elbow to the intake and hookup the intake hose. (there is room for the hose to pull up a bit and fit without the valve)

There you go... no EGR system!

Any questions ask or PM me.
Author:  user113 [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
I really like the sound of that. No codes or CEL?
Author:  Hexus [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
You will have a CEL and code unless you flash the ECU with a GDE Tune or similar.

Jeep will not pass emissions like that without an ECU tune.
Author:  dgeist [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Hexus wrote:
You will have a CEL and code unless you flash the ECU with a GDE Tune or similar.

Jeep will not pass emissions like that without an ECU tune.


Not entirely true... The SEGR circuit would do the same thing (as far as not having codes). It completely removes power to the EGR valve and simulates a load on the control line from the computer (i.e. phantom EGR).

Granted, I have both it AND the GDE tune and recommend both, but the SEGR is a little cheaper for those pinching pennies.

Dan
Author:  Hexus [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
dgeist wrote:
Hexus wrote:
You will have a CEL and code unless you flash the ECU with a GDE Tune or similar.

Jeep will not pass emissions like that without an ECU tune.


Not entirely true... The SEGR circuit would do the same thing (as far as not having codes). It completely removes power to the EGR valve and simulates a load on the control line from the computer (i.e. phantom EGR).

Granted, I have both it AND the GDE tune and recommend both, but the SEGR is a little cheaper for those pinching pennies.

Dan


The SEGR would fall under the "OR SIMILAR" category I previously discussed. :D
Author:  Auberon [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
This happened to me.
My approach initially has been to remove the tube that goes around the rear of the block and blank off the tail of the exhaust manifold with a welch plug (I think you guys call them expansion plugs) that I ran the down the skirt of in terms of height and thickness in the lathe - been in for about 10000 miles now. I also blanked off the rear entry to throttle body with appropriate plate and jointing to seal.

That was stage 1.
There is no rush on Stage II so it will happen at my liesure.
NOTE: only new parts available here cost both arms and legs + more.
In case I get the Greendiesel tune and I am advised I require the tube I am in the process of fabbing as time permits:
Including:
machining new cup end (where the V band goes) which was a mess of radial cracks that were utterly feeelthy and I would not bother TIGging this up as I an a stickler for cleanliness when TIG welding. I know I could've tried many options to etch but it truly was easier to turn it even though it it very thin and requirede all the tricks to be pulled out to stop chatter.

I then started to create the same form from carefully cut parts of heavier walled tubing with flex / expansion joints included in the design that is significantly more rigid and will not not vibrate as the thin walled tubing appeared to resonate at a self destructive frequency. The long section of it was a bad choice for the running speeds of this engine (IMHO).

All this has been machined and cut from 316 SS (flat flange to mate with throttle body and the cup for the V clamp) - the rest is being cut and tacked from 180 deg returns (1" O=.D,) then will be TIG welded to seal when I am sure it fits well.

Wall thickness is overkill but considerably better I think than the original - my new one is (from memory 1.6mm wall) so resonance is far less likely.

I had to go about it this way as 2nd hand was not available in this Country. There was a design change for that part mid-run for my model and buying from Chrysler here was not on for reasons l already stated - Mopar in USA - I had no guarantee I would score the right part. Due to distance exchange is too hard.
Author:  dgeist [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Hexus wrote:
The SEGR would fall under the "OR SIMILAR" category I previously discussed. :D


I guess we have different definitions of similar :wink:
Author:  dennhop [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Are the EGR tubes stainless or aluminum? I thought they were aluminum, but after pulling them, I'm not so sure...
Author:  greiswig [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
dennhop wrote:
Are the EGR tubes stainless or aluminum? I thought they were aluminum, but after pulling them, I'm not so sure...


Aluminum would melt. They're a high temp alloy. Probably stainless.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Remove the EGR and cooler and all associated plumbing including the feed pipe that runs across back of the engine. As others have stated; block off the EGR pipe at the exhaust manifold end with a plug or cap.
Remove the butterfly out of the FCV and block off the EGR inlet feed to it. Or better yet, order a Weeks101 elbow kit and get rid of the whole mess.... :idea:
Author:  weeks101 [ Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
dennhop wrote:
Are the EGR tubes stainless or aluminum? I thought they were aluminum, but after pulling them, I'm not so sure...

They are stainless.
Author:  Auberon [ Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EGR Pipe Flange cracked and broken at EGR valve
Indeed they are stainless as was mentioned by weeks101- very close to 302 or 304 SS spec.
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