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| New CRD owner, Have a few concerns http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74364 |
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| Author: | humboldtoffroad [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Hi folks I just bought a new to me CRD for my wife to drive primarily and for us to drive when we are going places together. I feel like I got a good deal 2005, 68000 miles, one owner( older couple). Old lady was selling because it was her husbands baby and he passed away. sounds like he was a diesel enthusiast because they has only diesel vehicles. She had two cars and didn't drive the libby. I picked it up for $8500. it seems great other than a few things: -when the engine is turned off there is a clunk or two when it shakes to a stop. sometimes when sitting in gear idling there is a knocking/rattling. I am thinking a bad motor mount on this one. -the full time light is on all the time on the interment panel. when it is in full time it says part time. I'm thinking the switch is messed up? - the ac compressor spins all the time when it is idling and the heater is off and defrost is off. when on defrost it cycles like it should. -Last problem is the biggest concern. Today I filled up with fuel and added diesel Kleen, I changed the oil with rotella T6 and bosch 3500 filter, while I was at it I also took out the map sensor and cleaned it with mass air flow sensor cleaner. It was caked up bad but got sorta clean but not perfect. there is a whole behind the bulb on the sensor that I also sprayed down inside really good. I also pushed on the fuel primer pump about half dozen times before it built pressure and got harder(Don't know why i was just messing around). after putting it together and putting 6.5 quarts of oil in I let it idle while I was cleaning up my mess and putting my tools away. when I was done I revved it in neutral to about 2500rpms just listening to how well this little diesel runs. I noticed it had a little stumble at that rpm, after doing that for 5 seconds or so i noticed a huge cloud of blue smoke coming from the exhaust. did the same thing again and same cloud of smoke but seemed to get thicker the longer i held it at 2500. when i let it idle the smoke clears up and goes away This libby had ran great for us the few days we have had it and it hasn't had any visable smoke at all driving around town up to this point that I have noticed. If I had damaged the MAP could it make it smoke blue like this and stumble when revved? could it be normal after letting it idle for an extended time? Could I have messed something up by pumping the primer? any suggestions would be appreciated thank you |
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| Author: | arengant [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Welcome! Great 1st post! Sounds like you got a good deal, have you read the noob guide? Have you noticed the rattle in reverse at all? When switching from drive to reverse is when the rattle is most noticeable. Here is link for transfercase: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59788 Good luck with the rest! |
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| Author: | Hoosier CRD [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Welcome to the forum Humboldt. It does sounds like you got a good deal on your CRD. I agree about your concerns regarding the blue smoke. From my personal experience, blue smoke is oil burning. I could speculate but am reticent to say as to why you have blue smoke. Have you taken the Libby out for a drive? Around here, we have an exercize called the "Italian Tune-Up." The VM Motori is Italian in origin, and Alfa Romeo owner's manuals actually suggests it to keep those cars running properly, hence the name. The exercize is to get the engine warm, take to an open road and do your level best to put your foot through the floorboard. Repeat as necessary. Given that an "older couple" previously owned your "Italian Mistress", I hope that the oil was changed regularly as were the filters in that the gentleman was diesel-oriented. If something should break, then you found the weak link. If all clears up then you should have a better running Libby for your efforts. Be warned: Black smoke will likely fill the sky behind you if it has been a while for her to have her legs stretched. Strongly suggest a Green Diesel Engineering "Full-Torque Eco Tune" to help matters more. Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | naturist [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
(1) you probably have the original (old style) fuel filter head, which is known to have a tendency to leak. It will leak fuel out at the heater electrical connector, and air in, which may be why you found it took several strokes to pump up. I would recommend replacing it when you put a new fuel filter on next time. (2) At 68,000 miles, you are still 32,000 miles from anybody having thought to replace the timing belt. On the other hand, that belt is rubber and now 7 years old, so it should be replaced because of age. This is an interference engine: you do not want to have that belt break on you, which will prove to be an expensive repair. (3) It is indeed possible you need one or the other engine mount. Here's the test: with the engine idling, transmission in neutral, foot on the brake, listen to the sound the engine makes. Then simply put it in gear, D or R. If your mount is good, you will hear a small change in idle speed, and that is all. If your mount is bad, there will be the idle speed change along with a very substantial difference in general noise and vibration. Drive tests the mount on one side, Reverse tests the mount on the other side, and I don't remember which is which now, but you can find mention of the phenomenon with a search here. |
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| Author: | humboldtoffroad [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
The previous owner made it sound like they were very religious about taking it to the dealer for service. she said she took it there a few months ago for a general check up because she hasn't driven it since her husband passed away. she said the tech even took it home and drove it for a day and said he couldn't find anything wrong with it. the oil change sticker in the window was showing it had 1000 miles left on the oil so I can only hope they were on top of it for the life of it. It had a mopar filter. I have not driven it since the observation of the smoke in the driveway last night since it was starting to get dark and I wouldn't be able to see the smoke if it was smoking. I will try the Italian tune up here in a few minutes though I am hoping somehow oil loaded in the intake from an extended idle time after a oil change or I had pushed air out of the filter head and it got in the pressure side of the system where it is making a difference. I observe there is some diesel puddled in the groove of the fuel filter near the gasket. Maybe even a combination of both. Anything but a worn engine though. This is the newest vehicle I have ever had and I wan't to make it last as long as it can. The gde tune is one of the first things on my list. I was going to go with the eco tune because I don't plan on hot rodding the libby and liked the sound of the decreased torque to protect the crappy TC. I won't ever tow anything big with her as I have a dodge 12 valve cummins for that purpose. would the full torque be recommended over the eco tune even with the F37 TC. Thank you all for the great responses sorry for the lengthy posts |
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| Author: | arengant [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
I would stick with the regular eco tune. I ran it for a few years until I bought a new TC (now I have the hot tune) and it is/was perfect amount of power since I didn't tow anything. |
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| Author: | humboldtoffroad [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Ok so took her out today and drove he hard a little bit and everything seems great now. after we got to operating temp. I gave it a good launch from a stop and it rolled out a good cloud of black smoke, after that there is no visible smoke. I think it is all good now. the fuel heater is positively leaking, the electrical connection was full of fuel when I unplugged it. after a little more time I think it defiantly has at least one motor mount out and maybe both, rattles in forward and reverse. What about the A/C clutch though. is it normal for the compressor to be running at all times with the a/c and defrost turned off? it sure seems like that would cause a decrease in fuel economy. Thank you folks for the advice, I was getting nervous about the smoke. this is a great site I don't think I would have bought the awesome little jeep if it wasn't for lostjeeps |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
I would not be concerned about the blue smoke until you disable the EGR (essential) to minimize ingestion of oil. The oil collected now in the turbo hoses will burn off in time. If the blue smoke stops then, you are good. If not, you will be needing a motor, at some point. You could speed up the process by removing the hoses, cleaning and checking them (replacing, if torn). However, if you do not get them properly reinstalled, they will blow off. DOC |
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| Author: | DOC4444 [ Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
AC runs when you have the heat set to be directed to the floor. It does not run when the air is directed only to the upper (dash) vents. There are instructions somewhere on this site as to how to disable this "feature". Removing the viscous heater relay will give you the biggest increase in mileage besides a GDE tune. DOC |
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| Author: | Hoosier CRD [ Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Glad to hear that your mistress is running well, save for a few rattle points that are fixable. Suggest the Italian Tune-Up every couple of weeks or so. To your point, run her hard until the black smoke goes away. The A/C compressor running has been a point of issue with other owners here as well. My view has always been that you want it to run. Not only does it act as a dehumidifier and clear your windows of fog, it also exercizes the compressor more rather than less. You could run the compressor less should you choose, but doing so allows the unit to sit idle longer. Nothing is worse on a piece of equipment than periods of no activity. The Viscous Coupler, in my opinion, falls into the same category. I would rather have the unit run than to have to try and find/replace the unit at some point in the future. The fuel savings cost will be offset by component replacement cost at some point, a win/lose situation rather than a win/win. Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Comments to original post and other comments: 1. if you have not already done so read Sir Sam's NOOB guide 2. clunk could be motor mounts or maybe bad alternator clutch. For the latter crank up and at idle look down the serpentine belt (may have to remove plastic engine cover) to the serp belt idler; if it's bouncing as opposed to barely twitching the alternator pulley is bad as needs attention ASAP. If so don't go cheap with get a new clutch from like ID parts although pulling it off can be an issue or see if you can score a lifetime warranty replacement alternator from like Autozone 3. see owners manual on when AC compressor runs. If you don't know if you have an owners manual check the shelf in the top of the glove box or download an "e" copy for the Jeep site or Sir Sam's. That feature can be disabled but as noted having the AC run some in the cold season circulates AC system lube with is good for the seals. 4. MAP sensor won't clean perfectly but as long as you can see color on the bulb it's clean enough. 5. pumping primer won't remove air unless you crack bleeder screw. See how to video on NOOB site which also shows replacement filter head which you obviously need. FYI new head comes with new filter installed. 6. sounds like your Italian tuneup took care of stumble. 7. full time light is almost certainly the switch as noted. 8. GDE Ecotune will give you the most mpg bang for the buck and will largely take care of EGR induced problems. That tune ups power and will handle towing upto and probably above 2,000 lbs just fine (based on tow from Tempe AZ to Tallahassee) without stressing the post F-37 torque convertor. "Hotter" tunes are fine but stress the TC IMHO. 9. GDE tunes shut off the viscous heater at a lower temp than stock tune or you can pull the viscous heater relay and turn it off entirely. The VH consists of an electric clutch that is triggered by coolant temp, a bearing, and internal friction stuff that when the clutch engages is designed to provide a bit of cabin heat sooner than the engine warm up cycle will. With the relay pulled the clutch stays disengaged, the bearing spins, and the internal stuff does nothing. The only downside is slower, but not much, cabin heat. In fact if you live in colder areas use of the plug in block heater will do more for cabin and coolant temp warm up than the VH will ever do. If my VH ever died I'd simply bypass it with the coolant hoses and replace the external bearing if need be (there is a how to post out there) which essentially converts it to an idler pulley. 10. I see you have an 05 so you might want to put a Hayden fan clutch on your list to replace the weak OEM fan clutch. Cost ca. $50 and a not to difficult DIY project which can be combined with a fan shroud mod to make future access easier. See http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html and viewtopic.php?f=98&t=64278&p=709322#p709322 respectively. |
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| Author: | humboldtoffroad [ Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Blue smoke has gone away completely after driving it, I think it was air that made its way to the pressure side of the system. the the A/C clutch that was running all the time is actually the viscous heater and not the ac at all. i guess when its worming up the vh will cycle with the ac??? If all is working correctly once the engine is up to operating temp. the VH clutch will disengage and have no effect on fuel economy at that point?? I am learning a lot from here. but still trying to figure out what everything does. Thanks for the help. as soon as I have a day off work when gde is open I am ordering a eco tune. It sounds like it is just good to have all around. I am not interested in any more power but fuel economy increase would be great. so far on the drive home after buying it we got 23.5 mpg, mostly HW with a probably 50 town. thanks again |
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| Author: | CATCRD [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
I bet you just knocked loose some oily goop from the MAP sensor when you pulled it to clean it. After seeing the sensor itself, imagine what is caked all over the intake passages. Some of that probably came loose and you just had to burn it off - hence the blue smoke. Air in the fuel lines doesn't cause blue smoke. I wouldn't worry about it. The VH will disengage somewhere below the correct engine operating temperature. What some people see is that when the thermostat fails and they're running at 1/4 on the temp dial, the VH runs all the time, costing fuel economy. Anyway, welcome to the CRD club! |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
The viscous heater clutch is completely independent of the AC and operates based on engine coolant temp. I don't recall and cannot immediately locate information but the GDE tune(s) lower coolant temp cutoff point for the VH to slightly reduce engine load and improve mpg. Alternatively you can simply pull the VH relay so its clutch never engages which is free and harmless. There are only 2 situations that I know of where the VH clutch would be engaged all the time: 1. engine coolant temp never gets high enough to disengage the clutch probably due to a failed thermostat. If your engine temp gauge does not reach normal levels, about 1/2 a needle width left of vertical, you need to replace your thermostat. I prefer OEM not inline although inline seems ok if not towing and ambient temps are not too high. 2. clutch is stuck "on" which will result in a burned out bearing. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60567 A quick check for the latter is to pull the relay and see if the clutch disengages so that only the outer rim of the VH pulley, right next to the belt, is spinning. |
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| Author: | SmokyCA [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
I've had the GDE Eco tune for about almost 2 years, and it's probably the single best mod you can perform. As for the viscous heater, the GDE tune will release the heater clutch once the vehicle has warmed to just about the 1/4 mark on the thermostat. It's very consistent, and I can feel the slight difference in engine load when the heater shuts off. The AC compressor will run on any position except for "Off" and the face-vent positions. I wish I knew a way to modify it so that the compressor will only run when I engage the AC button, but it's not that big a deal. If you happen to live in Humboldt, California, we might be able to trade notes on decent mechanics...I'll be needing a timing belt job pretty soon here and would rather not take it to the Jeep dealer in Eureka if I can help it. And if you see a dark green CRD Sport driving around, it's likely me. CRD's are rare to see up here. |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
SmokyCA wrote: I've had the GDE Eco tune for about almost 2 years, and it's probably the single best mod you can perform. As for the viscous heater, the GDE tune will release the heater clutch once the vehicle has warmed to just about the 1/4 mark on the thermostat. It's very consistent, and I can feel the slight difference in engine load when the heater shuts off. The AC compressor will run on any position except for "Off" and the face-vent positions. I wish I knew a way to modify it so that the compressor will only run when I engage the AC button, but it's not that big a deal. If you happen to live in Humboldt, California, we might be able to trade notes on decent mechanics...I'll be needing a timing belt job pretty soon here and would rather not take it to the Jeep dealer in Eureka if I can help it. And if you see a dark green CRD Sport driving around, it's likely me. CRD's are rare to see up here. Having the ac to engage only when you press the ac button is a mod I always wanted but apparently I never make the time for it... It's not really a big deal, there are 2 ways I can think of. First, and probably the easiest, would be to take off the knobs and panel for heating and vent and find the circuits that engage the ac. I think they are made from cooper/bras or something similar. Then, make sure you cut them or put some plastic over them so when you switch the knob it won't make any contact. Best would be to go to a junkyard and get a used one that you can butcher. Second way is to take out the relay for ac, and go with separate wires and relays to command the ac compressor, but then you need to make sure you will also start the electric fan with it. This is a little more complex and adds a little headache since liberty already has a on/off switch that does that. Last mod is only required for cars that don't have an ac button, where ac starts automatically when you switch on "defrost" or other factory ac on mode. There is a mod made by some people here in this forum for having the ac start only when you press the button, I'll link it if I can find it. |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Two methods I've seen are CHessMaster's post at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6042&p=180099&hilit=+switch#p180099 and kapalczynski's at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52364&p=585766&hilit=+switch#p585766 If I was to do this I'd do Kap's as it allows you to control whether or not the AC compressor runs. Keep in mind that a) you want the compressor to run some during cold weather to keep lube circulated and gaskets good and b) running the compressor in settings such as defrost is the most effective way of reducing in cabin humidity and defrosting sooner. Unfortunately some of Kap's images appear to be missing. I'll email him a not about that but in the interim if anyone wants a copy of his post with the pics just drop me an email, not a PM as I cannot attach a WORD document to a PM reply. |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
papaindigo wrote: Two methods I've seen are CHessMaster's post at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6042&p=180099&hilit=+switch#p180099 and kapalczynski's at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52364&p=585766&hilit=+switch#p585766 If I was to do this I'd do Kap's as it allows you to control whether or not the AC compressor runs. Keep in mind that a) you want the compressor to run some during cold weather to keep lube circulated and gaskets good and b) running the compressor in settings such as defrost is the most effective way of reducing in cabin humidity and defrosting sooner. Unfortunately some of Kap's images appear to be missing. I'll email him a not about that but in the interim if anyone wants a copy of his post with the pics just drop me an email, not a PM as I cannot attach a WORD document to a PM reply. I knew you'll reply with a bunch of info, lol. Thanks papaindigo! |
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| Author: | humboldtoffroad [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
when I first posted the libby was very new to me, I was looking at the VH clutch and assumed it was the A/C running and was concerned. I am not worried about the ac running when in defrost i like how it speeds up the process. When my defrost is on the VH clutch cycles too along with the A/C clutch. then when the Hvac control is switched to 0 or off then it runs steady. I haven't looked at it when at operating temp though. SmokyCA, Yes I do live in Humboldt, Fieldbrook over by McKinleyville to be exact. I used to have a customer who would bring a CRD to me for service and repair when they were sick of lithia reflashing their computer a million times. it was a silver one though and I believe from trinidad. I do all my own work and have worked at Central Avenue Service Center in McKinleyville until recently, now I am crab fishing. For suggestions on shops my old work is the only one I could recommend. they do great work and we always were very honest. However other than that one CRD that came in for regular service they have never seen one there so I can't say they know these crd. Good people though and the timing belt shouldn't be a problem |
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| Author: | humboldtoffroad [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New CRD owner, Have a few concerns |
Ok so Here is an update, The fuel heater was leaking pretty bad so replaced it with the updated one. while I was at it I did the EHM and ORM and replaced the motor mounts The problem is it still does the same thing. while in park if i rev it to 2000 rpm it runs great and no smoke, 2200-2500 it sputters, rpms fluctuate and it starts smoking out the exhaust a dark bluish color. it also seems like it doesn't want to rev to that point it takes more movement of the accelorator to get it up the extra 200 rpm from 2000 than it should. then If I push it past 2500 it catches and revs freely to 3000 and the smoke clears up. also I seem to be getting a little air in the new fuel filter still. The oil level has not dropped at all since I changed it but its only been 1000 miles I am stumped here. if it was burning oil it doesn't seem like it would effect the way it runs as much as it does. Is there a chance that I broke the MAP when cleaning it and its causing improper fueling or something? anybody have an idea |
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