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Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft play
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Author:  painemann [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft play
Well I have been worried about my turbo shaft play, took off the intake and took a video. IMO it doesn't look good! I almost want to have the girlfriend stop driving it at this point, what do you think?
I have been noticing a slightly louder turbo whine, this freaks me out with all the horror stories of people loosing a turbo and oil pressure at the same time!

Maybe some of you pro's have some incite. If I had an extra $1200 laying around I would order a new turbo now!
I am going to talk with GDE and see what his kit will cost since I have his tune already but I think it will be out of my already limited price range.
Sorry for all the rambling, this has got me a little distraught!

http://youtu.be/JzOhSpWT6ys
Author:  Farm Boy [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some oponions, Video included of shaft
I would not drive it anymore if you even want to think about rebuilding it.
That is very loose. It looks like the turbine may have been rubbing the housing? If it has
you will need the turbine at least. Sorry.
Author:  jlgail4309 [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some oponions, Video included of shaft
looks like it turbo time to me thats a lot of play.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some oponions, Video included of shaft
Geordi's the expert here - but my understanding is that any visible play - means a dead turbo

remember if the turbo starts dumping oil - you can kill the bottom end of the motor before you can pull off the road.

I would park it.
Author:  painemann [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some oponions, Video included of shaft
ATXKJ wrote:
Geordi's the expert here - but my understanding is that any visible play - means a dead turbo

remember if the turbo starts dumping oil - you can kill the bottom end of the motor before you can pull off the road.

I would park it.



That's what I was afraid I was going the hear!!!
That's what I will do, now I need to talk with some people that have done the replacement. I wish I had to the cash to go with GDE (if he even has any available) but I think I will do the stocker. idparts.com has the turbo is stock and I will order from them, what else will I need to replace while I am doing this?

Idparts price is aroind$1100 is this a fair price?
Author:  DOC4444 [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
Keith had some for less. See if he has any left.

DOC
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
X3 on park it right now before turbo completely goes and takes engine bottom end with it. $1100 is a reasonable price but a while back Keith at GDE had some for IIRC $800. You will need the turbo gasket (large flat one), 2 copper crush washers for oil feed line (parts store purchase) and oil return line gasket.

When geordi and I did my Stage II turbo install we had a horrible time with the studs. They are cra# metal; we broke 2 just getting the crush nut off and had a heck of a time getting them out of the manifold. Left 1 in and replaced other 3 with grade 5 studs. I'd advise a day or 2 of regular application of like PBblaster to lube the nuts before attempting removal.
Author:  painemann [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
papaindigo wrote:
X3 on park it right now before turbo completely goes and takes engine bottom end with it. $1100 is a reasonable price but a while back Keith at GDE had some for IIRC $800. You will need the turbo gasket (large flat one), 2 copper crush washers for oil feed line (parts store purchase) and oil return line gasket.

When geordi and I did my Stage II turbo install we had a horrible time with the studs. They are cra# metal; we broke 2 just getting the crush nut off and had a heck of a time getting them out of the manifold. Left 1 in and replaced other 3 with grade 5 studs. I'd advise a day or 2 of regular application of like PBblaster to lube the nuts before attempting removal.


Awesome info and normal papaindigo!
I will attempt to contact Keith today, if he still has one for that price it would be a bonus as I can just go to his house and pick it up as he is on my way home from work!!!

Thanks for the heads up on the replacement issues, I will start PBlaster-ing it today as I just bought a few cans. obviously I would like to avoid breaking studs if possible.
off IDParts.com they inclide this with the turbo for $1,120:

"Garrett VNT-2060VB turbocharger for the 2.8L Jeep Liberty CRD Diesel. Includes new turbocharger to downpipe gasket and copper nuts."
would I also need some of the 13mm copper pinch nuts? what are the used for, the studs on the manifold?
Sounds like that would be all I need.

I also replied to your PM!
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
Personal opinion. I wouldn't use those pinch nuts if you put a gun to my head as the OEM ones were at least part of our stud breakage problem. Just drop by any decent parts store and get some grade 5 nuts and lock washers and you should be fine.

If you don't break any studs removing the old turbo you might??? be able to reuse the existing studs. I really cannot make a recommendation one way or the other 1) leave them on and risk breakage when mounting replacement turbo vs 2) remove them and risk breakage during removal - pick your poison. In my case we really did not have much choice #1 stud broke removing pinch nut and reluctantly came out with offset stud puller; #2 stud did not break and came out relatively easily with offset stud puller; #3 stud absolutely had to come off as the Stage II turbo base is thicker than OEM at that point so I needed a longer stud to replace #3 but #3 broke like 1/4" from manifold so stud puller could not grip (using lots of heat; a fair amount of really bad language; lots of lube; plus vice grips to rock that stud back and forth I got it out); #4 stud we literally did not have the nerve to touch. Used grade 5 IIRC replacements.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some oponions, Video included of shaft
ATXKJ wrote:
Geordi's the expert here - but my understanding is that any visible play - means a dead turbo

remember if the turbo starts dumping oil - you can kill the bottom end of the motor before you can pull off the road.

I would park it.


X2 squared and cubed. That is a dead turbo, it just hasn't stopped twitching yet.
Don't be sorry that you have a dead turbo, be glad you found it before it went belly up and ruined the engine.
Just ask any number of folks how nasty that can get, and how fast! Geordi, R2.0, all sorts of folks!

Buy a new turbo forthwith and check it every oil change. Change the oil regularly, warm up and cool down per the manual, mitigate soot intake and the next one may run for a couple hundred thousand miles.
Author:  MedicPatriot [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
I want to inspect my turbo regularly. Is it the silver looking hose in this picture that I need to remove?

Image
Author:  painemann [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
MedicPatriot wrote:
I want to inspect my turbo regularly. Is it the silver looking hose in this picture that I need to remove?


That is the CAC hose from the turbo, (not sure what kind of aftermarket CAC hose that is but it looks nice) you don't need to remove that one. You need to remove the air box and the intake elbow from the air box to the turbo inlet. Also check that rubber intake boot as they are known for cracking down there near the turbo inlet. I need a second one now because I plugged it with a large lugnut and some glue, guess it was too large of a plug and it split the intake open. Another $60 down the drain.

Can someone post up the part number for the intake book from the box to turbo so I might be able to find a replacement online cheaper then dealer?
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
Air filter to turbo hose PN 53013104AE; $45 or so online but you can probably get it from a dealer at a competative price once you factor in online order shipping. Be sure to pull/push the upper end until it touches the MAF sensor before tightening the clamp to avoid crushing the airbox top outlet.
Author:  painemann [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
papaindigo wrote:
Air filter to turbo hose PN 53013104AE; $45 or so online but you can probably get it from a dealer at a competative price once you factor in online order shipping. Be sure to pull/push the upper end until it touches the MAF sensor before tightening the clamp to avoid crushing the airbox top outlet.


As always full of helpful info! thanks!
I ordered it off Amazon for around $55 shipped. And it saves me a trip to the dealer.

What the heck is a good plug for the CCV hole?
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
You might want to check the EHM mod links on Sam's NOOB guide. IIRC a champagne bottle cork (plastic) has been used by some. Since the CCV to airbox hose is in front of the turbo the air pressure flow direction is toward the turbo so you want something with a solid "head" on it to keep it from being sucked into the hose.

Assuming you are doing the EHM I'd be inclined to unplug the line at the CCV and plug that end, leaving the bottom attached to the airbox to turbo hose, as there is no harm in doing so once the oil flow is stopped and if you need to go in for inspection all you have to do is pull the plug and hook the hose back up to the CCV.
Author:  audiboy86 [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
Go to lowes they have tons of rubber plugs i found one that fit and bottomed out and i just put a pipe clap on it. Also I have a spare turbo with about 35K on it that i know to be good but needs to be cleaned up before it could be used because of sticking vains.
Author:  painemann [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
Thanks too papaindigo I now have a known good used turbo on the way, hope to get it into the jeep this weekend. I guess I should feel lucky I didn't have any catastrophic turbo falure that both crippled the jeep while my girlfriend was driving it, not to mention engine damage.

Is there a way to clean up the vains of the turbo before I install the turbo?

I will head to the hardware store and see what I can find for the plug on the intake.
Author:  MedicPatriot [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
How much play is too much play? I always remembered hearing that minimal play is okay as long as it doesn't wiggle around badly like in the OP's video.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
painemann - the turbo you should have Friday was working just fine, vanes and all, when it came off my vehicle. In fact it had just been run from Tallahassee to geordi's north of Savannah so the vanes should be quite clean. My thought would be to just install it, be gentle on crankup like I said to make sure it gets full oil pressure before being pushed; then after you have run it a day or two give it an Italian tuneup if you feel it needs it (something I did/do every few months). If you feel the need to clean I cannot speak in detail to the procedure but a number of folks mention using oven cleaner.

MedicPatriot - I've poked at a few health turbos and the one I just sent to painemann had no perceptible play fore/aft or side to side in either fan. On others I've been able to detect a very tiny bit of fore/aft play and only the barest slight hint of side to side play. Best I can say is if there is noticeable, not much help I know, but not necessarily visible movement it's time to consider replacement. The video show movement way past noticeable. Keep in mind the fan shaft spins at an incredible rate and rides on a cushion of oil over a bronze sleeve bearing with some oil holes and grooves in it and is retained fore/aft by essentially a keeper washer. I could be wrong but I'd worry more about side to side play as the side to side clearance on a good turbo is only enough for that slight oil film.
Author:  Hoosier CRD [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bad Turbo?? Need some opinions, Video included of shaft
I just watched your video. The biggest sin(s) I see are a dirty compressor wheel and some edge damage on the inducer veins, likely due to bad air filter(s) .

During the video, I DID NOT see the comp wheel hitting the housing nor did I see any evidence of the wheel hitting the housing in the recent past, both are signs of eminent failure.

My vote is to drive it. This advice is worth EXACTLY what you just paid for it.
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