Another one bites the dust, motor replacement or rebuild?

jburford · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:07 pm

My 2006 CRD with 74000 miles has had a head gasket leak which is now turned into an engine replacement or rebuild. The mechanic at the dealership has showed me that the #1 cylinder sleeve is pushed down slightly below deck. Replacing the head gasket would likely not stop the leak.

From here the question becomes whether the motor can be re-decked, or re-sleeved and re-decked, or give up on the old motor and put in a long block.

The dealer is quoting $7200 for the new long block and $2400 in labor. I don't have any idea how much a rebuild would cost or a reputable shop to do the work.

I'd appreciate hearing advice, experiences, and/or suggests.

Thanks

John Burford

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

Get some marsmallows......

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:54 pm

These motors have replaceable sleeves, so why does the stealership want to install a new motor instead of replacing a single sleeve?

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:19 pm

Because they don't know how.

I'd wager that the "cylinder below the deck" was actually caused by the "mechanic" at the dealership. It is not my understanding that these sleeves can be shoved down below the top layer. The protrusion is a very precise measurement that must be taken when choosing a head gasket.

The book says that it IS possible to shift the liners UP if the pistons are rotated while the engine is apart and the head is off. I don't doubt this, but they would be in constant danger of falling into the engine if they could move DOWN as there is nothing there preventing it... Except the form of the block deck itself.

There is something decidedly fishy about that mechanic... Trust at your own risk.

jburford · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:28 am

The more I look into this problem, I think the cylinder liners were improperly shimmed during original manufacture. I'm still in the situation of repair/rebuild or new long block. A repair/rebuild might be cheaper if the cylinder liner can be pressed out and re-shimmer. Has anyone on this forum pulled the sleeves out of a VM motion lower end?

John Burford

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:01 am

Never ever ever ever expect a dealership to fix a problem right. They won't yet they will still charge you double.

Smacker · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:57 am

John, what is your location? may be some help near you!

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:38 am

I cant figure out how the sleeve could be in too far.
These are wet sleeves, correct?
If they are wet sleeves, then they have a seal at the top and bottom of the sleeve.
The seal would have to butt up against something to make a seal and whatever they butt
up against should prevent them from being in too far.

Is my line of reasoning correct?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:15 am

To OP I'd suggest you go to Sam's NOOB guide and download FSM copies and read the relevant section. I'm by no means and expert on this but:
1. the cylinders have a wet sleeve liner
2. the liners are both removable and reusable if not scored or out of round and if need be replaceable 1 at a time.
3. as nearly as I can tell the liners "sit" on a shelf at the top of the cylinder bore and have a shim installed on that shelf to "set" the proper liner height relative to the cylinder/block (there are several shim thicknesses available) and have some "O" rings down toward the bottom of the liner that act as oil and water seals.

Off hand I see no possible way for a cylinder liner to be "pushed" lower unless a) the shim and shelf are somehow crushed which seems impossible during operation or b) the liner was not properly shimmed during the original or subsequent installation (both of which are possible). In any case absent other damage it's not particularly difficult to pull, inspect, reinstall/replace with proper shims and new "O" rings a cylinder liner just some tedious measuring to get it right. It's certainly not a replace the engine level problem.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:47 pm

jburford wrote:

My 2006 CRD with 74000 miles has had a head gasket leak which is now turned into an engine replacement or rebuild. The mechanic at the dealership has showed me that the #1 cylinder sleeve is pushed down slightly below deck. Replacing the head gasket would likely not stop the leak. (snip) I'd appreciate hearing advice, experiences, and/or suggests. Thanks John Burford

Concur w Geordi above, this does not make sense. If in fact true, then the sleeve was not properly shimmed at some point. Has the motor been pulled or was the head removed with the block in?

Absent damage to the block which precludes resleeving, which ought not be difficult with the right tools and a good DIESEL mechanic, the which you are not likely to find at a DC dealer, this is a relatively straightforward repair. I suggest if you replace the head and HG that you install studs, not bolts.

jburford · **Posted:** Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:43 pm

I appreciate the comments. Thanks for your input.

Regarding questions as to why a poorly shimmed sleeve during assembly would show up now. The coolant leak started approximately about the time I flashed the ECU with the GDE hot tune. I believe the seal of the the poorly assembled sleeve to the head and head gasket was over powered by the increased load of the GDE Hot tune. This of course is not GDE's fault just a conscience of pushing the engine harder.

Currently I am contracting and away (by several states) from my resources to work on the engine myself. I contacted several diesel engine specialist in the area who have all refused to work on the VM engine due to their unfamiliarity with engine. I friend in Texas (Russert Machine shop) said he'd fix it, but between shipping and working through the dealership; I'd be $5000 to $6000 into the project with no guarantees from having future problems related to the repair.

If I were at home with my resources, I would have pulled the head and have it inspected. Once the head was good. I would first ignored the sleeve problem, and get higher clamping head studs, do the timing belt, water pump, belt tensioner, and steel 7V glow plugs. This would cost $1500 to $2000 and my time. If the leak came back then I'd get into the lower end and re-shim the sleeve.

The dealer installed long block option does have one benefit. The long block and installation has a 3 year 100,000 mile warranty. This option will cost $10000 to $11000.

Next time you wonder why contractors are paid more, well here's an example.

John B

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:03 pm

Where are you currently we have a large CRD support network accross many states on this forum and even have a trusted mechanic list. But in all honesty I want to see this sleeve in question. Because i have a long block in storage which had a valve drop in it and it completely destroyed the piston but the sleve shows no sign of shifting even with deep gouges in the side.

jburford · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:25 pm

audiboy86

I'm in St. Louis for now. Might be in Seattle in a month.

I believe the sleeve was not shimmed properly in the VM factory, or the design tolerance on sleeve height is to large. My engine has never been apart before.

John B

Another one bites the dust, motor replacement or rebuild?

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