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| Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75736 |
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| Author: | hgrimberg [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
I had a burnt glow plug and went to the Mechanic to replace it. When he tried to take it out, it broke and half of it got stuck in there. He can't take it out now. What should we do? Help will be really appreciated. Thank you. |
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| Author: | ATXKJ [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
someone was able to wiggle the pieces out - but he never explained how. The shop that broke my glow plug pulled the head and took it to a machine shop to remove. 'it was still under extended warranty at the time and covered' |
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| Author: | hgrimberg [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
ATXKJ wrote: someone was able to wiggle the pieces out - but he never explained how. The shop that broke my glow plug pulled the head and took it to a machine shop to remove. 'it was still under extended warranty at the time and covered' My mechanic says that he will have to disassemble the entire engine to take the piece of glow plug out. |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
If the glow plug piece is still stuck in the hole and not fallen into the cylinder... Spray some penetrating lube into the hole. Pull all the plugs on the injectors. Crank the engine. Hopefully the compression will pop the piece out the hole. But if any piece of that plug has fallen into the cylinder, I wouldn't try it. |
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| Author: | hgrimberg [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
flash7210 wrote: If the glow plug piece is still stuck in the hole and not fallen into the cylinder... Spray some penetrating lube into the hole. Pull all the plugs on the injectors. Crank the engine. Hopefully the compression will pop the piece out the hole. But if any piece of that plug has fallen into the cylinder, I wouldn't try it. How do I pull all the plugs on the injectors? Do you mean to take out the other 3 glow plugs? Thank you! |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
First off, where did the glow plug break? Do you still have threads left in the head? Which glow plug broke? There are some kits to loosen up broken bolts (drill a small hole in the plug, use pb blaster in the hole too loosen the plug from the head, then that tool -looks like a conical drill bit, with left hand threading, so when you untie it drills in the rest of the plug and hopefully it will untie the rest of plug), you may be able to use that but you may need an impact tool/power tool, and depending on which plug is broken you may need to take out the valve cover to be able to use power/impact tool there, which is definitely better than taking the whole head out... As flash said, if the other part had fallen in the cylinder, you'll have to take the head out. Or if there is no thread left, soak that sucker in pb blaster and start the engine, you may be lucky and push the rest out... Can't help but wonder, how the heck a mechanic, that supposely knows what is doing, can break a glow plug, geez... soft top, hard shoulder, use a socket, you turn left, right, left right, use pb blaster first, etc, its 101 for any handy man, dont just go ninja and untie it... |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
hgrimberg wrote: flash7210 wrote: If the glow plug piece is still stuck in the hole and not fallen into the cylinder... Spray some penetrating lube into the hole. Pull all the plugs on the injectors. Crank the engine. Hopefully the compression will pop the piece out the hole. But if any piece of that plug has fallen into the cylinder, I wouldn't try it. How do I pull all the plugs on the injectors? Do you mean to take out the other 3 glow plugs? Thank you! No, what he means is to unplug the 4 fuel injectors so that they do not inject fuel into the combustion chamber, then crank the engine and hope the air pressure moves the plug remnant out. Air pressure alone will throw that glow plug piece with considerable force. I once launched a pencil injector for my Case about 40 feet, in a high arching trajectory, so make sure that you cover the glow plug hole with a few layers of terry towel or old blanket or similar if you decide to try that. It depends on where the GP broke, but given the PITA of removing the head, it might be worth a try. Let us know if you go that route and how it goes. |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
Alright, as a mechanical supervisor having worked with many locomotive diesels prior to having worked on this diesel and the VM hell that powers it, allow me to weigh in. 1. Your mechanic is a fool. He should have used a LOT of penetrating solvent and he should have worked the plugs easily back and forth until they were loose and then you can use 3/8" tubing tied to a stick to remove it. The engine should have been heated up (Either via running or block heater) prior to him even attempting to remove the glow plugs. 2. I would not advise starting the vehicle, even temporarily. There could be pieces of ceramic inside your cylinder now, which can damage the cylinder walls, valves, or if big enough, possibly even foul the piston head and cause broken rockers/lifters, or you could suck it through a valve and later toast your turbo (which is probably the cheapest thing that can go wrong at about $800). 3. I would not advise drilling, again parts can/will be pushed into the cylinder, which is bad because of obvious aforementioned reasons. Even a partial hole with an easy out is ill advised as you will probably drill into the ceramic and break it off inside the cylinder, and round and around we go. Do you see the pattern? Simple answer is this: It wasn't broke when you took it in, it's broke now. Who's responsible for that break? The head WILL HAVE TO COME OFF, and a cylinder inspection WILL HAVE TO BE PERFORMED at this point. ANY other answer or solution bodes ill for you and your vehicle. Tread carefully, and at your own risk! |
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| Author: | hgrimberg [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
Hexus wrote: Alright, as a mechanical supervisor having worked with many locomotive diesels prior to having worked on this diesel and the VM hell that powers it, allow me to weigh in. 1. Your mechanic is a fool. He should have used a LOT of penetrating solvent and he should have worked the plugs easily back and forth until they were loose and then you can use 3/8" tubing tied to a stick to remove it. The engine should have been heated up (Either via running or block heater) prior to him even attempting to remove the glow plugs. 2. I would not advise starting the vehicle, even temporarily. There could be pieces of ceramic inside your cylinder now, which can damage the cylinder walls, valves, or if big enough, possibly even foul the piston head and cause broken rockers/lifters, or you could suck it through a valve and later toast your turbo (which is probably the cheapest thing that can go wrong at about $800). 3. I would not advise drilling, again parts can/will be pushed into the cylinder, which is bad because of obvious aforementioned reasons. Even a partial hole with an easy out is ill advised as you will probably drill into the ceramic and break it off inside the cylinder, and round and around we go. Do you see the pattern? Simple answer is this: It wasn't broke when you took it in, it's broke now. Who's responsible for that break? The head WILL HAVE TO COME OFF, and a cylinder inspection WILL HAVE TO BE PERFORMED at this point. ANY other answer or solution bodes ill for you and your vehicle. Tread carefully, and at your own risk! So you don't recommend doing the cranking method as others were suggesting me? For what I can understand, you are recommending to take off the head of the cylinder and inspect it to see if there are some remnants of the broken glow plug. Then after the cylinder is open, it should be easy to take out the stuck piece of the glow plug? When you ask me if I see the pattern, what do you mean by "pattern"? Thank you very much. |
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| Author: | hgrimberg [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
I just called my mechanic and he told me he hired an specialist in removing stuck glow plugs. It seems the guy is not removing the head of the cylinder and he is working from the outside. I insisted on them opening the cylinder but they say that can cost too much... I am worried. |
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| Author: | Hexus [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
In the service manual, it specifically states (and rightly so) that if any part of the ceramic glow plug tip is broken off inside the cylinder, the head MUST be removed and it must be inspected. I can't say I disagree. I suppose you could use some type of camera inspection tool to ensure that no pieces of glow plug tip were in there, but you might as well search for grains of salt on the beach while you're at it. The pattern I was trying to point out for you is that if I told you it was $100 to mow your lawn, and then my lawnmower broke while I was mowing, I wouldn't charge you for a new lawnmower on top of the $100 we already agreed upon. The mechanic broke the darn thing, he is responsible for fixing it, regardless of how, and he's responsible for doing it correctly. |
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| Author: | cerich [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
hgrimberg wrote: I just called my mechanic and he told me he hired an specialist in removing stuck glow plugs. It seems the guy is not removing the head of the cylinder and he is working from the outside. I insisted on them opening the cylinder but they say that can cost too much... I am worried. I would insist they run a inspection camera with light in and look for pieces of the plugs, in fact I would prefer they do that over removing the head.... Much easier all around |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
Agree w Hexus, its the mechanic fault, he should deal with it "properly", which means by the book. If you would have done that, I could understand to try different suggested approaches. But a mechanic shouldn't have done such a noob mistake to begin with... it's not your fault, it's his. |
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| Author: | hgrimberg [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
Yes, I know it is his fault and he is trying to fix it. He is saying he hired a specialist and that the guy knows how to fix these problems and that he won't leave any broken pieces inside the cylinder... At this time, all I can do is trust on his good faith. I hope he will assume his mistake and his fault and that he won't be charging me for the specialist's work. If he pays for this guy's work, he will be loosing money, so most likely he will try to charge me extra for it. |
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| Author: | hgrimberg [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
He finally took it out! |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
Count the pieces and make sure that they add up to a complete glow plug. |
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| Author: | ChooChooman74 [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I had that happen. Don't take chances. Pull the head and get it fixed properly. Mine was #4. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta |
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| Author: | dirtmover [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
thermorex wrote: Agree w Hexus, its the mechanic fault, he should deal with it "properly", which means by the book. If you would have done that, I could understand to try different suggested approaches. But a mechanic shouldn't have done such a noob mistake to begin with... it's not your fault, it's his. I think you're underestimating how common this issue is even with experienced mechanics. Care and pre-treatment with a good penetrant will help but some will just not come out in one piece. We don't know if he took those steps. We all know of multiple instances where "the book" is incorrect e.g. torque values, procedures etc and blindly following it will cause damage. In areas where diesel market share is more than a fraction of a percent specialist plug and injector removal companies are common e.g http://www.extractengineering.co.uk/ They've invested in an array of special tools to deal with most scenarios and the success rate is high. I don't see a problem with the way this mechanic has dealt with the problem if the specialist he used is experienced and knows what he's doing. It's a responsible approach as long as he's prepared to fix things if the extraction attempt fails. If this mechanic can fix the problem at no, or minimal, cost to the customer even if he makes no profit on the job himself he may consider working on a CRD again. If he's taken to the cleaners because he has to do it by the book on his dime you can bet that he'll never touch a CRD again which is very bad for all of us. How many times have we heard the "Sorry, can't fix it, it's a diesel" line. |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
I admitted before, I am not a mechanic, but I had never ever broke a spark plug or glow plug, or stripped a nut/bolt, unless that was so rusted that was like welded. And that when I haven't used heat/penetrating oil. Maybe I am just lucky... An experienced mechanic would "feel" the breaking point and would not push over that, and will think at other alternatives. Granted, bad things happen every now and then, I am not saying that that mechanic should die, lol, I am saying he should take full responsibility of his actions, or at least to disclose to the client prior of doing anything that he may break something while doing his best not to. |
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| Author: | CRDsyeruncle [ Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glow plug broken and got stuck. Can't take it out |
Good to hear he got it out. This happened to me on #2 when I did mine. I was worried also, but there is a shape to the plugs. For your own piece of mind just ask to see all the plugs. You should be able to compare the ones that came out complete to the pieces of the broken one. Also, if the plug broke on removal, that most likely means it snapped somewhere on the threads, as the rest of the plug is thinner than the thread pattern. When mine broke, I used penetrating fluid and a straight tap to remove it, after drilling a little ways in. I then used a tap to clean the threads , one that I put grease in the sivs to catch any filings. A careful swab with a greasy q-tip and in went the new plugs. Don't panic. I'm sure the mechanic made it right. |
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