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Anyone seen this before?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75904		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  my1998tdi [ Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Anyone seen this before?
So long story short, my mom was driving her jeep about a month ago getting on the interstate when all the sudden she said it felt like she was driving on rumble strips, pouring white smoke, jeep dies, she coasts off the interstate and calls me and my dad. We was thinking the timing belt, the fuel filter came loose, or the turbo went. We rushed over, pulled intercooler hose off, nothing. Start taking the top of the timing belt cover off, its fine and the cams were in time. Checked the codes to see if there was any. There were four, cant remember the actual codes but it was egr, maf, low rail pressure, and ecu not recognized. So we towed it home and been tearing it down slowly. Got a whole engine minus the block, turbo, and a piston/rod for cheap too! But here is the damage. The valve broke at the radius. and then on up the stem alil bit. The rocker didn't break like I've read but it punched a clean hole through it where the valve went through. So any ideas about this? Any pics you want I will take.

Thanks,
Kris
Image
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Author:  Hexus [ Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Unsurprisingly that is Cylinder 3 where the EGR elbow attaches, as well as where 80% of all the rocker arm failures I've seen occur.

I'm not at all shocked.
Author:  my1998tdi [ Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
The egr has been missing for awhile. Like 40 to 50 thousand. It currently has 150ish IIRC.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Original ceramic glow plugs?

Darby had a brand new 06 die and they blamed it on the glow plug breaking.

normally they just chip off the end - but if the entire end broke - I think it could take out a valve.
Author:  painemann [ Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Holy crap.... Why do I click on these posts? Here I go again, anyone what to buy mine?
Author:  DOC4444 [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
So sorry for this situation. Please report on the status of your glow plugs.

Thanks,

DOC
Author:  naturist [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Ouchies! So sorry to hear of this.

Statistics predicts that there's always a certain (thankfully very, very low) probability that any randomly selected part will fail prematurely. You may the the guy who found the valve thus marked by cruel fate. Perhaps the only one for this engine ever manufactured and released into the wild.

Whatever the actual cause of the failure, a loose valve head sure can cause damage, wow, that's awful. Ruined head, trashed piston, no doubt scored cylinder liner, maybe bent rod -- kinda amazing it didn't take out your radio, too.
Author:  Auberon [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
I am so sorry to hear/see this has happened to you.
So the head of the valve broke off of the stem and beat her up from the inside out?
Rare - yes indeed. I can only offer supporting thoughts through the collective consciousness of the site.
A bit speachless really.
Author:  my1998tdi [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
The original ceramic came out this winter. Two weren't lighting up. Tips looked normal. Don't recall any missing.
Author:  mikey1273 [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Sorry that happened to you. To me that looks like a failure that would be very uncommon for any engine.
Author:  CRDsyeruncle [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
A totally raw deal. May your luck turn and your knowledge increase. Some details? What oil usage? Time between changes? Aftermarket mods to system? Type of driving usage? Any symptoms prior to the calamity? How many miles on the beastie? (And anything else you might like to add....)
Author:  audiboy86 [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Got a block in my shop floor that looked that bad when i got it and i even managed to get the head refinished. The aluminum head may look really bad but it acttualy looked better then mine and good head shop can get all the pieces and parts to put the head back together for you. The pistons arent that bad to find and get either now the connecting rods and main bearings i dont know about. If I was you i would put a new head gasket on it a new ARP bolt set in it check the turbo play and put new steel glow plugs (Ecthon is the company name I believe).
Author:  thermorex [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Metalic glow plugs are etecno I believe.
Author:  Hexus [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
my1998tdi wrote:
The egr has been missing for awhile. Like 40 to 50 thousand. It currently has 150ish IIRC.


So 110k with it operating, not at all surprised. My rockers in that same location blew up at 105k, and thankfully I didn't end up with a Valve as you did.

What oil were you using, if you say 0w40 Mobil 1 I'll probably throw up in my mouth a little...
Author:  my1998tdi [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
We use either rotella t6 or Castrol syntec both are 10-30. We normally go either 8 to 10 thousand on oil changes. My mom normally drives it and drives it easy but has a heavy foot taking off. the turbo has minimal shaft play. We just tore it apart to clean the veins about two months ago... :banghead: the mods on the jeep are samco hoses, EGR mia, the 7 volt glowplugs, and a kermatdi tune. There hasn't been any signs of anything happening. It was running great after the turbo was cleaned. The rockers sure look ok. But on a positive note, its getting two new sleeves, rings, gaskets and newer engine parts with roughly 68 thousand miles from an engine that the rod broke in. But thanks to IDparts for the other items!
Author:  Hexus [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
I wouldn't think 30 weight oil is sufficient....

At least it wasn't another 0w40. Whew.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Author:  thermorex [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
I dont think 0w40 is the real problem. The main issue with the "recommended" chrysler oil (mobil 1 0w40) is that this isn't a diesel oil and it doesn't have the required detergents/additives to properly clean the egr soot (which I think its the main issue and cause for early rocker failure). For a gasoline engine, this mobil 1 0w40 is one of the best oils one can buy. Vm didn't do their homework (as vw did) to find out the best oil for the american diesel market. I think thats the main issue, a true diesel 0w40 would be a good oil, I'm sure, as I am sure the "chrysler recommended" mobil 1 0w40 would be fine for a jeep with gde tune (since gde tune drastically reduces the soot), even if it wouldn't be the best choice.
Author:  naturist [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
I'm not sure the oil would have any influence on valve head to valve stem attachment. That's not a normally lubricated area, so whether the oil was thick enough or abrasive or whatever shouldn't make much difference.
Author:  Auberon [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Oil = primary heat vector for a motor. That valve stem break is very suspicious. I'd love to see that valve stem under decent magnification. It would be very telling.
I realise that the Nth American oil formulary can be very different (depends on breed). The Mobil 0W-40 treated my engine like pureed bee poo.....you know those honey yellow spots deposited on your paint on hot days. I've now sourced Rotella T6 (local seller). Fortunately I only have 30 000 miles on her.
My EGR "fell off" at 12 000 miles - I think the breaker with Mobil 0W-40 is that oil + EGR.+ low sulfur diesel...despite claims of long drain intervals "that" oil needs to be out of the engine @ 5 000km. Not value for money at all. Many carry only an A3/B4 rating and this cannot serve these engines well. Too heavily influenced by lighter oils lending fuel economy a leg up over protecting the engine.

More impotantly, re the thread: I'm am utterly convinced that these engines need an ACEA E6 (but even better) E7 rated oil.

In all seriousness, my1998tdi, I would be really interested in what the ACEA rating of the the oil you were using was - but I realise you have a lot on your plate. You needn't name the oil, of course, nor even answer.
Author:  my1998tdi [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone seen this before?
Sorry if I started an oil war. Just was wondering if anyone had this happen, since me and my dad are dumbfounded by the valve breaking there.. Maybe it was the rocker where the hole punched through. Ill try to get some more pictures tonight.

Auberon wrote:
In all seriousness, my1998tdi, I would be really interested in what the ACEA rating of the the oil you were using was - but I realise you have a lot on your plate. You needn't name the oil, of course, nor even answer.


What is the ACEA rating? Where can I find it? Again we used either rotella t6 or Castrol Syntec, as we have in all of our tdi's.
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